Deleted member 4333
D
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opcorn:
You sound like someone who just doesn't understand statistics.
Huge difference in being excited about the direction of the program and being excited about where we were at the end of last season and now. I tend to think a few just won't let go of the fact it was a 90% overhaul of the roster and not 50-60%. IMO there are only a few coaches in the country that could have stepped into this role and pulled out the class he wound up with and followed that up with a Liddell AND Whitney commitment. However the responses we see from you suggest this should have happened. Sure he didn't get Nolley or THT, Castleton and a few others. No one wants to throw out the fact that these relationships are pretty new with a lot of these kids either. On the court I thought at the end of the year we started seeing more back cuts developing in coach's offense. He says himself the whole system isn't even close to being completely installed. Then we have also seen the idea thrown out that Chin was a complete waste of a coaching spot because we haven't pulled the whole MIF team the 1st 2 offseasons he's had to recruit. Thats a complete slap in the face to Chin and the fact that Ayo looks up to him enough to take on this enormous challenge says so.It was the excuses and strained narrative framing that set me off. Not even set me off, I feel like my posts get read as angrier than they are. I'm just here having a chat about the Illini, let's all be nice and have a good time.
Let me re-up my thesis statement here:
That's the path to me changing my tune. If those things represent unreasonable expectations, I'm happy to have that conversation.
Okay, maybe read this one as slightly angry. What on earth are you talking about? I don't even know how to respond to that.
The majority of the board is content, nay, excited with the direction of the program and reacts with barely contained fury when it is suggested that the evidence that we are headed in the right direction is anything short of undeniable. As Exhibit A I submit the entire contents of this board, as Exhibit B I submit the fact that we're even having this argument.
MS was still a question Mark for me. You can't teach quickness, you can teach anticipation (or some level of BBIQ) but it remains to the student as to how well they pick it up.I think there are two equally-valid takes on this issue. The first is that we lost a lot of players that all have more experience in our program and our system than the incoming freshmen. That's tough and will likely hurt at least a little this upcoming season.
The second take, though, is that it might have been good for the long-term health of the program if it lets us use scholarships for UWM and NEU caliber players on better players. Obviously Finke wouldn't have taken up a long term scholarship and Black is a big loss, but otherwise, it might be some short-term pain for long-term gain. That is, of course, contingent on replacing those open scholarships with better players, which is clearly still a work in progress.
Personally, I am still a little miffed that we lost Mark Smith. The optics are bad, and I, unlike some on this board, still had quite a bit of hope for him. Sure, he looked slow as molasses out there on the floor last year, but that is pretty common for freshmen. He has a great frame and showed some flashes and I was honestly looking forward to his development. I think folks on here were just expecting him to come in and be like a two-and-done, which obviously looks silly in hindsight. All that said, I am not a basketball coach and am not an expert. Maybe he really isn't that good and Cuonzo just took him because of the PR it entails, but I tend to think Cuonzo is pretty good about talent and just can't coach.
I'll be 100% honest in saying that statistics was the hardest class I took at the UofI....and that includes the engineering classes I had to take. Also, for some inexplicable reason it counted 5 credit hours as opposed to the standard 3.
That being said, I aced the final.
I'm fine with stats, just not the way that they are being used by people who have never played a competitive sport in their entire life and have zero athletic ability, but come into the business side of the sports and have such a dramatic influence on how the game is played. It's the obnoxious amount of time and money invested in fantasy crap that is driven solely by numbers rather than the enjoyment of the players and the game as it's played.
I'm ranting now. Sorry. Back to our regularly scheduled flaming. Statistics suck. Okay now I'm done.
MS was still a question Mark for me. You can't teach quickness, you can teach anticipation (or some level of BBIQ) but it remains to the student as to how well they pick it up.
We had, overall, a lower BBIQ and/or young team (in general) last year - heck our Grad Transfer almost cost us a 99.99999% odds win by trying to disrupt a full court heave with no time left. Other than AJ (probably our best weak side help defender), I didn't see a ton of BBIQ with our returning upper class. KN started to get it and has some great games. TF, DMW, showed a high level of IQ on the floor and I'm really looking forward to seeing DMW this year full strength. I thought this team fought all games to the end mentally - they may have tired physically towards the end some due to the style of D.
All that said, at least this coach gets on people for lack of smart play and/or effort.
I certainly don't miss Ford's hand on the wheel there.He also rewards them for doing things right and well and is willing to play the hot hand, a concept that was lost on Groce, who tended to stick with his guys through thick and thin.
So the narrative we are going with now is "last year's team had a lot of hustle and didn't quit despite losing"?
It is no longer "BU can't win with these guys because they aren't his guys, they are too soft and quit" which was what we were running with at the end of the season.
Sorry, it is hard to keep up some times.
Not sure our chances but a 10 month old tape on Jitoboh looks pretty impressive. Kid is a monster. We could really use his presence down low.Ok. Back to actual recruiting info. So with the visits we have set up with the big men, do we stand a legitimate chance at landing one of them?
Ok. Back to actual recruiting info. So with the visits we have set up with the big men, do we stand a legitimate chance at landing one of them?
So the narrative we are going with now is "last year's team had a lot of hustle and didn't quit despite losing"?
It is no longer "BU can't win with these guys because they aren't his guys, they are too soft and quit" which was what we were running with at the end of the season.
Sorry, it is hard to keep up some times.
being excited with the direction of the program does not equate to being content.
You have this black and white view of the basketball program's fans. They agree with you and their wise and brilliant. They don't agree with you, they've been lobotomized.
But you're routinely caught up in minimizing any good things apparently out of fear that BU or JW might look good?
Not sure our chances but a 10 month old tape on Jitoboh looks pretty impressive. Kid is a monster. We could really use his presence down low.
You can definitely see the similarities with Cockburn. Cockburn is the better player, but they're both big, thick, old-school back to the basket brawlers who you can hardly believe are still in high school from a physical standpoint.
Which is interesting because that's not the way things are going in basketball generally. SFA couldn't really acquire guys like that and BU's one OSU team didn't have any, I wonder how a mauler like that would fit in the system. Either Cockburn or Jitoboh would definitely address the rim protection situation, that's for sure.
being excited with the direction of the program
FWIW, I'm a BU fan and I think we'll see good results in coming years compared to last dozen (as S&C says, a low bar). Having said that (pulls pin, opens door, throws grenade in, closes door), what do others think of the concept that this is BU's first real chance at landing 4* and 5* players? He certainly didn't chase those types of players seriously at SFA, and had only one year of experience at OSU. Could it be that we're seeing the learning curve in action with BU and recruiting on the biggest stage of all?
Fair question, though neither OSU, nor SFA were in the B1G. I feel that BU is trying to tweak his system. I believe him to be adaptable (insert defensive switch up mid season at OSU). I could be wrong though.
Wasnt the problem at OSU more related to the pressure his guards were able to put on the ball? I would say that was maybe the strength of our D last year. Not sure many changes cover up our inability to defend in the paint.Honest question: Why do you think that he didn't do the same thing last season when it became obvious his roster couldn't play the type of D that he wants?
My best guess was that he believed instilling an attitude was more important than a few more wins from a mediocre team.
Wasnt the problem at OSU more related to the pressure his guards were able to put on the ball? I would say that was maybe the strength of our D last year. Not sure many changes cover up our inability to defend in the paint.
Wasnt the problem at OSU more related to the pressure his guards were able to put on the ball?