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#151      
WestSuburbanIllini: "We might truly be in the process of shaking our "University of East Central Illinois" reputation..."

Coach Underwood: “We’re a Top Ten program. We should ACT like it... We’ve got to continue to act like ‘The Duke’s and whoever you wanna talk about...”

One way to act like a Top Ten program is to not obsess over what any one individual (or two) decide to do with their lives. Have a foundation of confidence and pride and a program that’s all about bringing out the best in all the talent who choose to go there. Emphasis on: Program. Not any individual.

Josh Whitman and Coach Underwood have been all about healing the wounds of past Illini disappointments. They could hardly have done a better job up until now. These are intelligent guys who have proven they know how to get results... Acting Like a Top Ten Program. They "Get It".
It's much more than "one individual " that's at stake. It's the message that we're willing to go toe to toe financially with the big boys. Anyone can say we're a top 10 program in a press conference or interview... it's completely different to back it up with tangible actions. People - recruits, other coaches, fans, boosters, the community they all notice that and it creates that positive reinforcement loop.

Also, it's the continuity and momentum that's at play - not just "an individual ". Yes I agree that we can and should expect to be able to find someone of comparable caliber if one or both of these coaches go. But acting like a top 10 program doesn't mean letting someone come in your backyard and take your stuff without a fight.
 
#153      

billybaroo

Pebble Beach, CA
I get where you are going with this but I’m not so sure Texas fans are that forgiving either. Seems like Skaka Smart has been on the hot seat since he got there.
You are mostly correct. Shaka was on the hot seat. He's now cooling off in Wisconsin...

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#154      
I want to be clear that I think Kentucky is clearly the best job in the nation, and a coach with a competitive fire/dreams of a championship is likely to jump at the opportunity to coach there (almost) no matter where he is currently employed. However, just for discussion, I do have to wonder if the modern era has SOMEWHAT diluted the appeal of the "elite programs" to coaches. This likely affects those jobs just under the "UK Tier", but just as an example, imagine these two jobs, one with elite tradition and the other with "good" tradition:

Indiana: 5 National Titles, 8 Final Fours, 11 Elite Eights, 23 Sweet Sixteens, 39 NCAAT Appearances, .645 All-Time Winning Pctg., 560 Weeks in AP Poll All-Time
Texas: 0 National Titles, 3 Final Fours, 7 Elite Eights, 13 Sweet Sixteens, 35 NCAAT Appearances, .623 All-Time Winning Pctg., 269 Weeks in AP Poll All-Time

You won't find a ranking of all-time programs that puts IU outside of the top 7, and you likely also will not find one with Texas inside the top 20. However, I take that Texas job every day of the week. They have plenty of money, their instate talent is better than Indiana's, their conference has fewer historical powers to get past in ascending the ladder, their facilities are better and their fans won't turn on you during the middle of a rebuild because you haven't brought them back to the promised land yet. That's just one example, but I do kind of wonder if your "sleeping giant"-type programs have become a lot more attractive to prospective coaches now a days than some of the traditional powerhouses. Again, this likely doesn't apply to UK, UNC, Duke, UCLA or KU, who will always be elite jobs. But IU? Louisville? Syracuse? These jobs are all EXCEPTIONAL jobs, but they would have been no-brainers over Texas 30 years ago (IMO), but now I would honestly prefer Texas.
I disagree... Being at a basketball first school is critical. The pressure is more, but everything else around the program is more too. Commitment needs to match expectations, and usually it does for basketball coaches at basketball-first schools.
 
#155      

JFGsCoffeeMug

BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
As a fan base, we've become adept at rationalizing finishing second best. Michigan didn't play enough games. Loyola was underseeded. And if we get beaten for Antigua, that will somehow demonstrate our seriousness.

In the fan bases of more successful programs, these would all be disappointing outcomes.

BU, OA, Chin et al have done an excellent job at Illinois, but we talk about retaining staff like we're protecting some unassailable dynasty. We have not reached such heights that it warrants paying assistants more than anyone's ever been paid before.
When determining salary, past accomplishments are just one factor to consider. You should also consider the current market, future projections, and replacement costs. The current bidding war gives us insight on the current market for OA specifically. He is in high demand. Future projections based upon incoming recruits, current commits, and year to year improvement are promising. We have been in the race for the B1G title the last two years and we just won the BTT. I would love to live in a world where we continue to contend for B1G titles and BTT trophies (I seem to recall Josh saying something about this during his intro press conference). Finally, replacement costs don't just include a comparison of salaries. They also include losing recruits, losing connections, losing momentum, and dedicating time and resources to stabilizing and working to retain what is already in place. Just as an example, time and energy spent on re-recruiting Podz is time and energy taken away from pursuing other recruits.

Again, all of this might be unavoidable. And if it happens, we will spend zero time feeling sorry for ourselves. But the lens you are using to view the situation through is far too narrow. There's a lot more at stake than just a simple salary negotiation.
 
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#157      
As a fan base, we've become adept at rationalizing finishing second best. Michigan didn't play enough games. Loyola was underseeded. And if we get beaten for Antigua, that will somehow demonstrate our seriousness.

In the fan bases of more successful programs, these would all be disappointing outcomes.

BU, OA, Chin et al have done an excellent job at Illinois, but we talk about retaining staff like we're protecting some unassailable dynasty. We have not reached such heights that it warrants paying assistants more than anyone's ever been paid before.

I'd argue as a fan base, we have mastered the art of doubting ourselves, downplaying our potential and metaphorically being terrified to take off the nut cup ... and this is a perfect example. In one post, you have said that we lack the attitude/drive of a program capable of sustained championship-level success (and you have presented this as a negative), and you have ALSO suggested that we are undeserving of thinking differently and getting out the checkbook!

There is literally one way all Illini fans should view this, in simplistic terms:

1) We should all be ecstatic that the powers-that-be at Illinois believe in the potential of Illini Athletics where they can rationalize spending this kind of money on a proven commodity that has helped bring us "back."

2) If we do end up losing a coach to Kentucky of all places, after putting this kind of an effort into a bidding war, there is nothing else we really could have done and we should at least be happy about the silver lining in my first point.
 
#160      
Loyalty needs some news on this OA/Chin front soon. The meticulous overanalyzing of salaries, the value of assistant coaches, the benefits and downsides of all 50 states, and which city is more valuable to a basketball coach is spreading like a disease in here! o_O:censored::LOL::ROFLMAO:

I'm surprised that somebody on here has not been monitoring Flightaware.? Or better yet hanging out at Willard.
 
#161      

illinihawk16

Chicago
Loyalty needs some news on this OA/Chin front soon. The meticulous overanalyzing of salaries, the value of assistant coaches, the benefits and downsides of all 50 states, and which city is more valuable to a basketball coach is spreading like a disease in here! o_O:censored::LOL::ROFLMAO:
With the death of Terrence Clarke, Calipari is out in LA. That may put some of this stuff on pause.
 
#162      
When determining salary, past accomplishments are just one factor to consider. You should also consider the current market, future projections, and replacement costs. The current bidding war gives us insight on the current market for OA specifically. He is in high demand. Future projections based upon incoming recruits, current commits, and year to year improvement are promising. We have been in the race for the B1G title the last two years and we just won the BTT. I would love to live in a world where we continue to contend for B1G titles and BTT trophies (I seem to recall Josh saying something about this during his intro press conference). Finally, replacement costs don't just include a comparison of salaries. They also include losing recruits, losing connections, losing momentum, and dedicating time and resources to stabilizing and working to retain what is already in place. Just as an example, time and energy spent on re-recruiting Podz is time and energy taken away from pursuing other recruits.

Again, all of this might be unavoidable. And if it happens, we will spend zero time feeling sorry for ourselves. But the lens you are using to view the situation through is far too narrow. There's a lot more at stake than just a simple salary negotiation.
There's no way we win this. Antigua was a key to Calipari's glory days at Kentucky. Also, Kentucky's down two assistants. Also, their basketball resources run very deep. Also, they're Kentucky, and we're not. Any way you look at it, if they want Antigua, they'll get him. The only way we prevail is by making an offer so absurd that even Kentucky boosters say it's crazy. And, if we manage to keep Antigua, it doesn't make us better. It preserves the status quo. And the status quo is not so fantastic that it warrants paying our assistants salaries that even Kentucky boosters find crazy.

If Kentucky matches our offer and Antigua leaves, which most seem to anticipate, it reinforces their status as a top-tier program, and ours as a second-tier program. We will have offered him more money than anyone, ever, and he will still have left for a better job.
 
#163      
There's no way we win this. Antigua was a key to Calipari's glory days at Kentucky. Also, Kentucky's down two assistants. Also, their basketball resources run very deep. Also, they're Kentucky, and we're not. Any way you look at it, if they want Antigua, they'll get him. The only way we prevail is by making an offer so absurd that even Kentucky boosters say it's crazy. And, if we manage to keep Antigua, it doesn't make us better. It preserves the status quo. And the status quo is not so fantastic that it warrants paying our assistants salaries that even Kentucky boosters find crazy.

If Kentucky matches our offer and Antigua leaves, which most seem to anticipate, it reinforces their status as a top-tier program, and ours as a second-tier program. We will have offered him more money than anyone, ever, and he will still have left for a better job.

Don't know if this has been posted before but UK had the #1 recruiting class each year that OA was at UK.
 
#165      

Calillini

Now appearing in Tampa
Instead of looking backward to the past to think about how to value the staff recruiters and talent assessors, maybe we should look forward to the new landscape of recruiting.
In the past it was to evaluate high school talent and get them signed and developed.In the future it is more important to evaluate the portal and see who among the KNOWN talent can fit for a year or two.
The job requirements have changed, risks have changed, the risk/reward time frame has shrunk.
I am willing to rethink the talent/job requirements and salary structure of the recruiters and talent evaluators on the staff who work WITH the head coach. It seems their role just got a lot more important in the portal era.

Maybe Kentucky figured this out before we did?
 
#167      
There's no way we win this. Antigua was a key to Calipari's glory days at Kentucky. Also, Kentucky's down two assistants. Also, their basketball resources run very deep. Also, they're Kentucky, and we're not. Any way you look at it, if they want Antigua, they'll get him. The only way we prevail is by making an offer so absurd that even Kentucky boosters say it's crazy. And, if we manage to keep Antigua, it doesn't make us better. It preserves the status quo. And the status quo is not so fantastic that it warrants paying our assistants salaries that even Kentucky boosters find crazy.

If Kentucky matches our offer and Antigua leaves, which most seem to anticipate, it reinforces their status as a top-tier program, and ours as a second-tier program. We will have offered him more money than anyone, ever, and he will still have left for a better job.
Make up your mind is it “There’s no way we win this,” or is it “if we manage to keep Antigua.” You are full of bad takes today.
 
#168      
There's no way we win this. Antigua was a key to Calipari's glory days at Kentucky. Also, Kentucky's down two assistants. Also, their basketball resources run very deep. Also, they're Kentucky, and we're not. Any way you look at it, if they want Antigua, they'll get him. The only way we prevail is by making an offer so absurd that even Kentucky boosters say it's crazy. And, if we manage to keep Antigua, it doesn't make us better. It preserves the status quo. And the status quo is not so fantastic that it warrants paying our assistants salaries that even Kentucky boosters find crazy.

If Kentucky matches our offer and Antigua leaves, which most seem to anticipate, it reinforces their status as a top-tier program, and ours as a second-tier program. We will have offered him more money than anyone, ever, and he will still have left for a better job.
Counterpoint: it's not my money, and given the dollar amounts being discussed we've clearly got boosters involved, so it's not the university's money either. So with that established, I am 100% ok with paying crazy amounts of someone else's money for this.
 
#170      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
Counterpoint: it's not my money, and given the dollar amounts being discussed we've clearly got boosters involved, so it's not the university's money either. So with that established, I am 100% ok with paying crazy amounts of someone else's money for this.
+infinity!

Great to see some of our heavy hitters anteing up. Illinois basketball is a strong program. Fans care, a lot.
 
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#171      

haasi

New York
There's no way we win this. Antigua was a key to Calipari's glory days at Kentucky. Also, Kentucky's down two assistants. Also, their basketball resources run very deep. Also, they're Kentucky, and we're not. Any way you look at it, if they want Antigua, they'll get him. The only way we prevail is by making an offer so absurd that even Kentucky boosters say it's crazy. And, if we manage to keep Antigua, it doesn't make us better. It preserves the status quo. And the status quo is not so fantastic that it warrants paying our assistants salaries that even Kentucky boosters find crazy.

If Kentucky matches our offer and Antigua leaves, which most seem to anticipate, it reinforces their status as a top-tier program, and ours as a second-tier program. We will have offered him more money than anyone, ever, and he will still have left for a better job.
It seems like your central point is that we suck and should get used to that being inevitable regardless of what we do or don’t do. Is that it?

Or is it that we should let Kentucky just take Antigua without putting up a fight, try to hire someone good to replace him, and hope for the best? Really not clear what you’re suggesting we do.
 
#172      

Illwinsagain

Cary, IL
Counterpoint: it's not my money, and given the dollar amounts being discussed we've clearly got boosters involved, so it's not the university's money either. So with that established, I am 100% ok with paying crazy amounts of someone else's money for this.

I absolutely appreciate the passion of the supporters to step up and try to keep our coaches. Part of me wishes that Josh would have made these calls last fall, to keep staff that was let go. Unless, the athletic department was over staffed and needed a trimming anyway. I know it is not as flashy, but it would have been cool to have a press conference, where Josh would have thanked the donors that helped "keep the family together". Off soapbox.
 
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