Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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Why are you guys sweating Epps dropping. You think that these services are better at talent evaluation than Bill Self?
I'm not sweating anything. Just honestly curious as to why. Could be there is an entirely idiotic reason his ranking dropped. I'm just curious as to what that reasoning is. I trust our staff and think if they like Epps he'll be great. Just also a believer in hearing opinions from the other side has value, even if you ultimately don't agree with them. Sorry I asked!
DB11Headband
- Chicago Burbs
Jayden Epps will be a significant contributor from the moment he steps foot on campus-I don’t care what the rankings say.
As someone who...
1. Doesn't see these recruits play outside of highlight reels
2. Isn't a premier evaluator of talent
I definitely reference these recruiting rankings. They're pretty consistent with basketball - no where close to accurate for football. I don't think they're always right, but I think you're in the right mind to ask "why".
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Did Epps tear it up, by and large, in AAU ball against VG or elite competition? Yes
Was his play consistent (no tail off)? Yes
Is there any evidence of faltering? Nope
ESPN's ratings have been a clown car show for a long time. Evidently, Rivals is tracking them down.
Was his play consistent (no tail off)? Yes
Is there any evidence of faltering? Nope
ESPN's ratings have been a clown car show for a long time. Evidently, Rivals is tracking them down.
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I only care about what BU and co think. They have far more on the line than we do. We'll be fine. Deep breaths y'all.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Thought the Traore ship had sailed, but evidently not:
FWIW, I love this kid. NBA potential, no doubt.
FWIW, I love this kid. NBA potential, no doubt.
This might be true. I don't know. But I will note that people on here have been saying Schutt is criminally underrated in the rankings for a while. Well, ESPN now has him at 47, Rivals at 82, and 247 at 108. So who is right in that instance?
I'm all for discounting ESPN and Rivals' recent changes to Epps' rankings, was just curious as to whether anyone had any insight as to where they were coming from. I highly doubt the scouts employed by either outlet are trying to intentionally ruffle feathers, or have an anti-Illini bias (as convenient as excuse as that would be). So if we accept the conceit that they are wrong, what exactly are they wrong about? What are they missing? I don't think these are ridiculous questions to try and understand. In fact, if you could understand the disconnect, to the extent one exists, between what a ranking service values and what actually matters, I think you'd have a major advantage in hitting on undervalued talent. This is essentially the point behind Moneyball - figuring out why certain players were undervalued and exploiting that.
TLDR; if you believe that Epps is undervalued by ESPN and Rivals, there is value in understanding why they came to the (wrong) conclusions they came to, and just dismissing them as "bad" misses that point.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Diid Schutt all of a sudden become markedly better or did the services materially underrate him?
You are assigning far more value to the rating services than they deserve. These are subjective, and only as good as the raters doing the evaluating.
Yes....Please!
sacraig
- The desert
I love the inclusion of Big Tim and Rees Woodcock. (For the record, the former is far worse than the latter.)I only care about what BU and co think. They have far more on the line than we do. We'll be fine. Deep breaths y'all.
DB11Headband
- Chicago Burbs
Chester’s done everything he could in this one. Not sure it’ll be enough, but he is a beast on the recruiting trail. Value the time we have with him!
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
He's just asking a question: why the drop in ranking? The answer 'ESPN's evaluators are crap' does not answer the why. The point is to understand what those evaluators might be seeing (or not seeing) that is causing him to drop in their mind, not to determine whether that drop is warranted.
No you missed my point there. A lot of the same people that think Schutt has been underrated also think ESPN is bad at rating prospects. But ESPN has Schutt ranked way higher, and closer to the consensus on this board, than 247.
And I'm not assigning any value whatsoever to anything. Two services downgraded one of our recruits in their ratings, and I'm curious as to why. I'm not understanding what is wrong with asking the question.
I mean, while not answering it the way YOU wanted it answered, crappy evaluators does answer the question of why. It doesn’t answer why the crappy evaluators dropped him, but I think the implication there is that there is nothing of concern, just people making rankings on a bit of a whim and the rotating news and highlights. I’m sure most of these rankers are not steadfastly watching 150+ players of game tape.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
This. I think if you cornered these evaluators and had them explain what gives (w/Epps' rating) they'd give nonsensical answers. Only rational thing I can come up with is he's getting dinged because they don't think he's really a PG and he's relatively short. It certainly isn't based on his play.
Probably less subjective than message board fans' ratings of their own recruits however.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
And all these ratings are moot as soon as they start their college careers.
And yet 4 of our top 6 players in terms of minutes and production last year were top 50 recruits
Sorry guys...I want to get back to important stuff...like who is taller in the picture with Coleman and Payne.And yet 4 of our top 6 players in terms of minutes and production last year were top 50 recruits
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
Crappy evaluators does not answer why said supposedly crappy evaluators dropped Epps in ranking. That is a statement of the relative value that ranking -- any ranking by that evaluator, really -- provides in assessing the actual ability of a given player on the court, but the OP's original question was not "is this drop meaningful" but rather "what might be causing them to drop him?" Now, if the answer to why Epps dropped in ranking is b/c evaluator A picks numbers out of a hat, then that answers the original question and might also help us decide that evaluator A is crappy.
The only instance in which "crappy evaluators" tells us why Epps dropped in the rankings is if the evaluator was taking a literal crap when they were supposed to be watching Epps play and missed all of his good moments, only to emerge from their porcelain throne to see him miss every remaining shot. One might nitpick the causal chain, but in that instance I think we could reasonably say the ranking is meaningless because the evaluator is crappy.
The reason I pointed to asked in regards to Epps is that he’s ranked higher and plays a similar style to what Frank Mason was coming in to college. Self was able to identify that as a guy that had a skill set that was undervalued by the rankings experts.
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