Ohio State 86, Illinois 83 Postgame

[DMWSuperFan]

Well I generally don't watch the NBA but I do try to watch Ayo when televised. One of the things I noticed is that if there is contact around the rim there is usually a foul called. They don't let them hack each other like in college or at least the Big 10.

Exactly.

 

[Hopingfor500]

With all of the issues that this team has:

Over reliance on the three
Poor foul shooting
Both directly responsible for long scoring droughts.
Blowing large lea
Letting up 50 points in a half for the 2nd game in a row.
Undersized in the backcourt
At 6'3", Williams being stuck guarding the other teams best post player

Given all of those issues, which has created the same problems in each and every game....we have 15 pages about the refs. I have not seen an elongated discussion on the above, which are all problems.

It's been refs, refs, refs, refs......

We're there bad calls, yes! Did the refs swallow the whistle and really blow the last one ...yes. I get the frustration. However, we should have never have been in the position where the refs calls mattered. That's been the case at least 10 times this year.

This obsession with bad calls starts before the game even starts with advising of who's calling the game and how we're going to get the short end.....20 minutes before tip.

 

[CoalCity]

I don't disagree with you necessarily. However, we're talking about a 7'0", 280lb, powerhouse of a human being. I'm going to give Kofi more credit than that. He gets slapped and hacked, but quite honestly, nothing that a guy of his size and strength, shouldn't be able to finish through. If he wants to play professionally, all of those missed layups that people say he got fouled on.....those need to be drop step dunks. If he goes up strong, there's not one college player that's strong enough to stop him, refs or no refs. We see flashes, then it's back to trying to lay a bunny off the glass, fading away.

That's a ridiculous take. That's the nicest word I can think of for it. Hes got 2-not one-TWO 250 lb guys grabbing his forearms, pushing him in the back and grabbing his jersey and you think he should be able to take it up with just a little more effort.

How about you get the neighbor kids to hang on your arms, punch you in the back and grab your shirt and see if you can score on a 7 foot rim. Just stupid.

 

[Rocky]

Having seen how refs swallowed their whistles during the Knicks/Bulls contests of the 90's, I too can understand the resentment. Pat Riley would just call Phil Jackson a whiner. But Riley knew what he was doing. You maul and bully guys every game all game long for a season, and it becomes your identity; and you know the refs can't call fouls on every play. The refs adapt, badly, but they do. Teams will keep hacking at Kofi and daring the refs. Do we stop running our offense through Kofi because of this? No way. Kofi has to study film, learn to to recognize the extra bodies, and respond appropriately and more quickly, whether it's a pivot move or a pass ... or he has to do like he did in the WI game, and just bully them back.

 

[pruman91]

Me , this morning.................................

Me , when I hear some stupid crap about refs don't influence the game...............

Me , after lunch with my buddy Al Gore..............correct way to eat pru's cabbage ...................bite , bite , pass......................Al overindulged himself.......

Mr . Coward is Manbearpig..............he really really is............................

 

[Calillini]

I'm no analyst but it doesn't seem like we have a good answer for 'everybody guard Kofi when he has the ball' defense.

And it’s been on display for any 12 seed in the NCAA tournament to view on tape

 

[Calillini]

Seems like we either build up a lead and ALMOST lose it with a few minutes left OR build up a deficit and ALMOST win it except we ran out of minutes.
I am tired of ALMOST.

 

[illini 67]

The good out of this lose:
1. Grandy seems be backed to dropping threes
2. Plummer is back in a heater.
3. Hawk is starting to realize he can not only stop good player he can score on them.
4. The press works pretty well.
5. You can't let it be close or the referee gets to decide the game.

 

[CubsIlliniFan]

With all of the issues that this team has:

Over reliance on the three
Poor foul shooting
Both directly responsible for long scoring droughts.
Blowing large lea
Letting up 50 points in a half for the 2nd game in a row.
Undersized in the backcourt
At 6'3", Williams being stuck guarding the other teams best post player

Given all of those issues, which has created the same problems in each and every game....we have 15 pages about the refs. I have not seen an elongated discussion on the above, which are all problems.

It's been refs, refs, refs, refs......

We're there bad calls, yes! Did the refs swallow the whistle and really blow the last one ...yes. I get the frustration. However, we should have never have been in the position where the refs calls mattered. That's been the case at least 10 times this year.

This obsession with bad calls starts before the game even starts with advising of who's calling the game and how we're going to get the short end.....20 minutes before tip.

I agree with your assessment. The biggest issue is that we do not or would not play a wing wit’s size who can get to the rim. I would have taken a couple of more loses in November if it for the idea of playing the freshmen more. The refs are the refs. They suck. But the turning point to me was the three that Trent put up once he Got the pass without running any offense. We had a nice lead and off that miss, they go down and make a three. Not blaming Trent but he should know that we should run the offense. We were in complete control of then game. Then the Williams elbow and the tide completely turned. Williams, Grandy, Trent, Plummer and Kofi played over 30 minutes a game. Thats less than 40 minutes for everyone else. 5 players with 8 minutes a game for the rest of the players who played. But this is the team we have. Good and the bad.

 

[Trent is the Man]

I could not have said it better. The ball movement is better when RJ, Goode and Hawk are on the floor. Sorry, but Grandy and DMW are just too slow for the type of game we need to play. I love Kofi but he will never learn to keep the ball high and dunk the ball instead of babying it up there. He needs better hands. I love the quicker lineup as it will confuse teams. I would love to start Hawk against Mich. Its time. We need Podz to get minutes. We need to rest players or we will be knocked out early. Plummer needs to come off the bench. Belo needs to start and Trent needs to work off the ball.

I can do without DMW on the floor but Grandison needs to be on the floor. Very good shooter and by far our best post entry passer.

 

[Biscuit]

I wish they would sprinkle in a zone to change the defensive look and give me a different reason to complain about their defense. It worked for Iowa against Ohio State.

I know it is not that simple, but it seems the game plan against Illinois is pretty simple. Run a high pick and roll and make Kofi make a decision on what to do as he doesn't seem quick enough to hedge on the screen and then get back into play. If that play doesn't work, find the man who has the size advantage, usually their 4 man, clear out the floor and let him back down and shoot over the defender.

I wish we had 1 player who could back down their defender and score.

 

[Hopingfor500]

That's a ridiculous take. That's the nicest word I can think of for it. Hes got 2-not one-TWO 250 lb guys grabbing his forearms, pushing him in the back and grabbing his jersey and you think he should be able to take it up with just a little more effort.

How about you get the neighbor kids to hang on your arms, punch you in the back and grab your shirt and see if you can score on a 7 foot rim. Just stupid.

I think my post came across as giving the refs a free pass. That wasn't the goal of point. To be clear, I agree with you and the non calls on Kofi. I also think that something should be done about it, not sure what it is that can be done to make the refs see the game differently. They're obviously not seeing what the fans(Illinois) are seeing. I thought Kofi could have been better, despite the refs.

Let me ask you two questions:

1)Was Kofi being reffed any worse last night than any other night?

2)He was 5 of 15(4 of 12 in the first half). This is a guy shooting 60%+ on the season. Yesterday, it was 33% with misses(less one), being point blank. My question to you is, 33% vs 60%. Why?

Add to that, he only had one defensive rebound.

I see all of the blame headed towards the refs, but none saying, frankly, Kofi played poorly. That's what I'm getting at.

What's your take?

 

[Oldskoolkoach]

Tre Demps says part of our issue is we play too many guards. I kind of agree but ito me it's because DMW is not a 4. He does well for his size but I think it's time to start or give the majority of minutes to Hawk at the 4. I think he can give us a lot more production and match up better going forward. I know a lot if what DMW doesn't show up in a box score but again DMW had 26 minutes, 2 pts and 2 boards. We need more than that out of the 4.. Liddell and Young had a much easier time shooting over DMW than Hawk plus Hawk is a better rebounder and scoring threat. Last night showed me it's time to change.

Someone last night was ragging about Young, we could really use a guy like him at the 4!!

 

[HailtotheChief]

Someone last night was ragging about Young, we could really use a guy like him at the 4!!

Young played well but I think Hawk can go exactly what we need and he must play starters minutes for us to reach out potential. He rebounds, passed and us defending well. He also can score and hit the offensive glass too. He may be the only one that can though so I agree with your post too.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I have some bad news for the majority of you. College refs make a lot of mistakes, and are inconsistent. Big Ten has a lot of bad refs that make bad calls. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and it'll probably be that way after I'm long gone. Bad reffing happens to every team in the Big Ten, NCAA, heck the world. The global sport of basketball probably has seen many examples of much worse reffing than last night, as hard as that may be to believe. Bad reffing is just another variable a good team has to account for and overcome, like an injury to a star player, a strange ball selection by the home team, or a raucous away environment. Bad reffing is not a thing that can be controlled, but is a thing that can be overcome. Large scoring droughts and bad defense are are within the team's control, and as we saw last night are often too difficult to overcome.

If the players and staff took the same lesson from this game that this board has - that we simply got jobbed and lost because of the refs - then we'll see this same result again, sooner rather than later. But I'm hopeful BU & Co. are looking inward rather than outward when assessing this loss.

 

[forbesfrosh]

Brutal game for DME- he did not make “winning plays” , the elbow he threw was ridiculous and a momentum killer you can’t have that from a 5th year senior - he got 2 rebounds all game and couldn’t stop anyone on defense- his stupid foul in the last minute when the guy had picked up his dribble in the corner 90 feet from the basket was boneheaded as well

Excellent points, especially the stupid foul when we we had gotten within two and had all the momentum. You can't foul a guy so deep in the backcourt and put them on the line rather than make them work for a basket. Inexcusable for a 5th year senior.
This underlines what has become increasingly obvious in the last month or so--you can't have Williams playing more than 10 minutes or so per game in light of the emergency of Hawkins and Melendez. He is a total non-factor on offense and you can't play 4-on-5 with the ball for as long as we do when Williams is in. He's a tough player who has given his all for the Illini, but his defense simply no longer justifies so much PT when we now have better options overall.

 

[forbesfrosh]

I'm almost ready for Payne to just sit down unless there is an injury or we are in serious foul trouble and I'm not talking about just Kofi. He just brings very little to the table. His offensive game outside of coach the lob is pretty much non-existent, he takes too many gambles to block every shot, and he usual has at least one boneheaded foul or turnover when he is in. I would like to see more Hawkins at the 5 when Kofi is out.

Amen, brother. Payne has been a big disappointment. I knew he was limited offensively but his lack of rebounding and dumb fouls need to reduce his PT in favor of Hawkins. A no-brainer

 

[illinipimp]

Probably gonna catch crap but here goes. Been a fan since the 60’s so I’m not a hater. Hugely disappointed with last night. Having 3 of our last 4 at home really felt good about our chances for a big ten title. These are the same guys that closed out last year with tough road games and answered the call. Its late Feb and we are still inconsistent. Doesn’t seem to matter home or away we are in close games. I get the big is tough but we seem to struggle with everyone of late. We can’t win with just 2 guys scoring . Too man I’m games with little bench scoring. Too many games certain starters are no shows. Williams gives us zero offensively. Sure he’s a good defender but would it be worth sacrificing some defense for more then a couple points on offense? The guys he was guarding had pretty good games. His flagrant was costly. This team is talented. Frustrating why we struggle so much . Not much time left to get it together consistently. If we keep going from good game to bad game we won’t get past the second round come March and they are better then that!

 

[bootsy1974]

Probably gonna catch crap but here goes. Been a fan since the 60’s so I’m not a hater. Hugely disappointed with last night. Having 3 of our last 4 at home really felt good about our chances for a big ten title. These are the same guys that closed out last year with tough road games and answered the call. Its late Feb and we are still inconsistent. Doesn’t seem to matter home or away we are in close games. I get the big is tough but we seem to struggle with everyone of late. We can’t win with just 2 guys scoring . Too man I’m games with little bench scoring. Too many games certain starters are no shows. Williams gives us zero offensively. Sure he’s a good defender but would it be worth sacrificing some defense for more then a couple points on offense? The guys he was guarding had pretty good games. His flagrant was costly. This team is talented. Frustrating why we struggle so much . Not much time left to get it together consistently. If we keep going from good game to bad game we won’t get past the second round come March and they are better then that!

We were as hot as anyone at this time last year into March and didn't get past the second round. NCAA tournament is a different situation. It's not about being hot going into the tourney it's about the right matchup for us. We could play a team that we match up very well with and win both games.

 

[FromTheLogo]

So I re-watched the game (brutal). But 2 things:

1) The expression Holtman used in the timeout I referenced on an earlier post was: "Respond with force." tOSU did respond but the refs didn't respond

2) Since tOSU does not move the ball much and plays off-the-bounce, I tracked which Illini was scored on. If an Illini fouled and put the opponent on the line, the points counted against him. I included the equivalent of pts/40 min against. Then for kicks I added the points they scored on offense in the game. Basically it broke down like this:

Trent - played 31 minutes had 10 pts against (12.9 per 40 min) He scored: 12
Jake - played 31 minutes had 10 pts against (12.9 per 40 min) He scored: 14
Plumm3r - played 30 minutes had 10 pts against (13.3 per 40 min) He scored: 26
DMW - played 26 minutes had 16 pts against (24.6 per 40 min) He scored: 2
CoHawk - played 26 minutes had 12 pts against (18.4 per 40 min) He scored: 10
Kofi - played 24 minutes had 16 pts against (26.6 per 40 min) He scored: 12
Belo - played 18 minutes had 4 pts against (8.9 per 40 min) He scored: 7
Goode - played 8 minutes had 0 pts against (0.0 per 40 min) He scored: 0
Omar - played 5 minutes had 2 pts against (16.0 per 40 min) He scored: 0
Podz - played 1 minute had 2 pts against (80.0 per 40 min) He scored: 0
Coach - played 0 minutes had 4 pts against (Infinity per 40 min) He scored: 0

Take as you wish, but DMW and Kofi each had a rough game.

Notables:
Branham only had 10 of his 31 on Trent
Young had 13 on Kofi.
Liddell had 8 on CoHawk, 7 on DMW
Kofi kicked the ball out of the post 6 times which led to 2 points (a Belo bucket).

 

[KnoxIllini2]

So I re-watched the game (brutal). But 2 things:

1) The expression Holtman used in the timeout I referenced on an earlier post was: "Respond with force." tOSU did respond but the refs didn't respond

2) Since tOSU does not move the ball much and plays off-the-bounce, I tracked which Illini was scored on. If an Illini fouled and put the opponent on the line, the points counted against him. I included the equivalent of pts/40 min against. Then for kicks I added the points they scored on offense in the game. Basically it broke down like this:

Trent - played 31 minutes had 10 pts against (12.9 per 40 min) He scored: 12
Jake - played 31 minutes had 10 pts against (12.9 per 40 min) He scored: 14
Plumm3r - played 30 minutes had 10 pts against (13.3 per 40 min) He scored: 26
DMW - played 26 minutes had 16 pts against (24.6 per 40 min) He scored: 2
CoHawk - played 26 minutes had 12 pts against (18.4 per 40 min) He scored: 10
Kofi - played 24 minutes had 16 pts against (26.6 per 40 min) He scored: 12
Belo - played 18 minutes had 4 pts against (8.9 per 40 min) He scored: 7
Goode - played 8 minutes had 0 pts against (0.0 per 40 min) He scored: 0
Omar - played 5 minutes had 2 pts against (16.0 per 40 min) He scored: 0
Podz - played 1 minute had 2 pts against (80.0 per 40 min) He scored: 0
Coach - played 0 minutes had 4 pts against (Infinity per 40 min) He scored: 0

Take as you wish, but DMW and Kofi each had a rough game.

Notables:
Branham only had 10 of his 31 on Trent
Young had 13 on Kofi.
Liddell had 8 on CoHawk, 7 on DMW
Kofi kicked the ball out of the post 6 times which led to 2 points (a Belo bucket).

Thank you for putting this together!

 

[Tacomallini]

At lease Kyle Young can't come back to play in Champaign, even if he wanted to. Let's hope that's the last time Liddell and Branham play there too.

 

[Illini in Italy]

I think my post came across as giving the refs a free pass. That wasn't the goal of point. To be clear, I agree with you and the non calls on Kofi. I also think that something should be done about it, not sure what it is that can be done to make the refs see the game differently. They're obviously not seeing what the fans(Illinois) are seeing. I thought Kofi could have been better, despite the refs.

Let me ask you two questions:

1)Was Kofi being reffed any worse last night than any other night?

2)He was 5 of 15(4 of 12 in the first half). This is a guy shooting 60%+ on the season. Yesterday, it was 33% with misses(less one), being point blank. My question to you is, 33% vs 60%. Why?

Add to that, he only had one defensive rebound.

I see all of the blame headed towards the refs, but none saying, frankly, Kofi played poorly. That's what I'm getting at.

What's your take?

You can be wrong. We all are . . . frequently.

 

[alaskaillini]

About the reffing of Kofi. If you watch Kofi he bashes into guys using his weight to back them down in the post. He is very physical when making his moves to the basket. He rarely gets called for the offensive foul. Comparatively, the interference with Kofi's shots - bodying Kofi, getting hands into Kofi's arms before he goes up with the ball - seems minor to the refs. Kofi dishes out punishment, so they just expect him to take it. Not saying it is right, but it seems that is just the way they call it. We just going to have to find a way to deal with it.
I wonder if in the tournament that he will get called for more offensive fouls, but the defenders called for more hacks.
Agree with others that Kofi needs to keep the ball above his head and dunk it, which he was not doing last night.
BTW think we win last night with Melendez. Hope he makes it back soon.

One final thought - top 4 in the B1G, second weekend in the NCAA are the generally accepted standards for a successful year. Have almost sewn up the first, and think we are going to get there with the second. Had BU had this entire team together from the beginning - instead of Curbelo, Kofi and BVD with concussions, Kofi with stupid suspension, and now Melendez with appendicitis, along with people with the flu early in the season - we would have a much better record and be playing much better by now. Last night's game is an example of how BU is still working out rotations and still experimenting to find a number of answers for different problems the team will face. In his presser BU kind of indicated that he is going to have various plans for March and not just ride things like the Loyola game last year (he is still learning his occupation as well).

Keep the faith. Still a lot of basketball.

 

[Noblesville Illini]

The answer to minimizing the hacks and beatings on Kofi and bringing the problem to a greater light is initiating "The Kofi Cam". Put a camera on him every game for every minute he plays and record it. Count the number of fouls actually called versus total fouls occured and send the video to the BIG and NCAA AND also put it on Twitter so that referees are called out and THEY can see how awful they look at officiating Kofi. The court of public opinion may be just the thing that effects change. Thoughts?