MSU-Michigan Postgame Scuffle

Status
Not open for further replies.
#201      
WyattEarp
aaeismacgychel said:
My guess is the B10 will tack on additional players to be suspended, but the lengths of the suspensions will be underwhelming especially if MSU is waiting on the B10 to levy length of suspension. If I were to bet on this, I'd say the kid attacking the player with his helmet will be indefinitely suspended, likely dismissed from MSU, and will never play another game in the B10. I would bet that the three other suspended players will be suspended for the rest of the season for their roles in punching/kicking. I think #4 should be included in this group but ultimately won't be, and instead he'll be suspended a game, along with a few other players. I'd also expect several security guards to be terminated from their positions. That'd be my best bet (I don't have any insider information on this).

The reason I think the B10 will act on this is that this is an embarrassment to the conference and they'll want to show they're serious about punishing this behavior especially with the impending lawsuit. Plus Warren as Commissioner has shown a willingness to suspend, but on the very lenient side.
Click to expand...
Those potential punishments sound plausible. Supposedly there was also someone on the MS staff yelling at the refs calling them: “little b*tches”…sounds like inciting to me; and the exact opposite of modeling the right kind of behavior in a volatile situation…not to mention just plain dumb. Probably nothing will come if it for several reasons of course.

Edit: I know skyldub or someone put this story link up already…I do so here to acknowledge where I got the staff member thing.

www.freep.com

I was right in the middle of the Michigan-Michigan State scuffle. Here's what I saw.

Free Press sports writer Chris Solari was among those in the Michigan Stadium tunnel when the violence between Michigan and Michigan State occurred.
www.freep.com
 
Last edited:
#202      
ptgrd23
Anybody on film hitting, kicking, from MSU side should be suspended for rest of season by B10.

I am going to assume if anybody from Michigan was doing same it was self defense.
 
#204      
Krombopulos_Michael
the juiceman cometh said:
Riiiiiiiight. Sorry in advance everyone for the long response filled with lawyer speak but armchair lawyering often means complete disinformation, and

I Dont Like That Bill Burr GIF by Saturday Night Live


On depositions, sure you can depose almost anyone you want. The problem is actually being able to use that testimony. It has to be relevant. And by that I mean legally relevant, not relevant to internet message board users. In most jurisdictions that means for a prior incident to be admissible it has to be pretty much the same incident, and it has to be relatively recent. Let's say 10 years. So show me the incident where a player was cornered and beaten in that tunnel in the last 10 years. That gets in. The Penn St. PBJ incident, or OSU shouting match, probably don't.

Also subsequent remedial measures (i.e. fixing a hazard after the fact) are pretty much absolutely never admissible as evidence of the hazard. The obvious reason for this is that if you could use it as evidence nobody would ever remediate a hazard for fear it would be used against them. And I don't even know what "did they like to intimidate their opposition" means or what it has to do with this. Football teams always try to intimidate their opposition, I really just don't understand the point here.

Btw, did you google "open and obvious"? Because if you're going to use the Penn St. incident as proof Michigan should have been on notice, you're setting yourself up for a potential summary judgment on those grounds. The Michigan player would have also been on notice, so the hazard would have been open and obvious. Case over.

And if you think juries are going to have sympathy for 20 year old men beating on another 20 year old man then congratulations, you obviously have little to no experience with our criminal justice system, may we all be so lucky.

This is not to say there's zero risk to Michigan. You never know. But in my opinion this is one where if I'm in Michigan’s legal office I'm not really worrying about it.

Relaxed Chill GIF
Click to expand...
bye bye birdie GIF
 
#207      
PNWIllini
#209      
OrangeLife
PNWIllini said:
MSU fan board is taking this … not well

247sports.com

Now Jones, White, Windmon and Wright suspended

Now Jones, White, Windmon and Wright suspended
247sports.com 247sports.com
Click to expand...
Good Lord!! Those people are complete asshats. I used to tepidly root for Michigan State in football (just to piss off Michigan), but I hope those thugs and their psychotic fans never win a game again in any sport. Their entire board is composed of losers and idiots. Let's beat these turds by 50 and kick their fans asses back to Michigan. I am beyond shocked by the degree of lowlife posts on that site.
 
#210      
SKane
I wouldn't call it a "scuffle."

I'd call it an assault and battery.

Not that I don't dislike MI in general and Harbaugh in particular but the video is too clear to call it anything else.
 
#211      
PIT_ILL
the juiceman cometh said:
I've actually defended personal injury cases and think it's a stretch. For one, the "dangerous condition" is a large tunnel that the injured player knew led to both locker rooms. And the injured player knew about the Penn St. incident. Google "open and obvious."

Also, the plaintiff would bring in all possible defendants, which would include Michigan State, the individual players, likley Michigan State coaches, and certainly whoever was running security (local police?). The jury (if it got to that point) would then allocate responsibility between all parties, who would pay their share of the award (I don't think Michigan has joint and several liability). What percentage do you think Michigan ends up getting, particularly with a jury located in the state of Michigan?
Click to expand...

All true unless UM is considered an employer (that line is getting more and more blurry). The duty of an employer to address known safety hazards in the workplace is usually higher than what you described. I have seen successful lawsuits against an employer for less.
 
#212      
WyattEarp
OrangeLife said:
Good Lord!! Those people are complete asshats. I used to tepidly root for Michigan State in football (just to piss off Michigan), but I hope those thugs and their psychotic fans never win a game again in any sport. Their entire board is composed of losers and idiots. Let's beat these turds by 50 and kick their fans asses back to Michigan. I am beyond shocked by the degree of lowlife posts on that site.
Click to expand...
I’m glad to hear you say that. I thought the same thing. (Unbelievable. I dunno if it Is just that particular forum group or what? I will say I’ve seen some tackier Illini chat-stuff elsewhere too…BUT that’s just delusional, reality denying bat 🦇 poop 💩 crazy 😜 stuff. Just 🍌 bananas!
(It’s not like there’s video evidence or anything.)

I’m thinking the average poster on Loyalty has about 35+ IQ points on their best and brightest.
 
#213      
pruman91
OrangeLife said:
Good Lord!! Those people are complete asshats. I used to tepidly root for Michigan State in football (just to piss off Michigan), but I hope those thugs and their psychotic fans never win a game again in any sport. Their entire board is composed of losers and idiots. Let's beat these turds by 50 and kick their fans asses back to Michigan. I am beyond shocked by the degree of lowlife posts on that site.
Click to expand...
I read 4 pages of that BS and stopped when they were saying Windmon was trying to deescalate the melee....It sure looks like he put his helmet back on and started to pound on the scUM dude............what is going on in that state ??....same state where peeps tried to kidnap their governor and showing up at the state capitol building packing some serious heat.......whoa nellie...................What is this country coming to ????

JMHO.......................
 
#215      
the juiceman cometh
PIT_ILL said:
All true unless UM is considered an employer (that line is getting more and more blurry). The duty of an employer to address known safety hazards in the workplace is usually higher than what you described. I have seen successful lawsuits against an employer for less.
Click to expand...
So kind of but not really. I think what you're describing is workman's comp and it's not that the duty is heightened, it's that the duty is kind of irrelevant. An employee injured in the course of work is entitled to compensation under workman's comp, regardless of whether there was any negligence or fault on the part of the employer. The flipside, and why employers are ok with such a system, is that awards are typically quite a bit less than they would be in a regular civil suit.

So basically if there is an employer/employee relationship, and the Michigan players were acting in the course of their employment when they got beat up, it probably doesn't even matter if Michigan has any fault, it'd be compensble either way. If the injury wasn't in the course of work, the employer/employee relationship is irrelevant.
 
#216      
Illini in Italy
the juiceman cometh said:
So kind of but not really. I think what you're describing is workman's comp and it's not that the duty is heightened, it's that the duty is kind of irrelevant. An employee injured in the course of work is entitled to compensation under workman's comp, regardless of whether there was any negligence or fault on the part of the employer. The flipside, and why employers are ok with such a system, is that awards are typically quite a bit less than they would be in a regular civil suit.

So basically if there is an employer/employee relationship, and the Michigan players were acting in the course of their employment when they got beat up, it probably doesn't even matter if Michigan has any fault, it'd be compensble either way. If the injury wasn't in the course of work, the employer/employee relationship is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
And the general consensus in the workman’s comp world is that stupidity is compensable . . . 😉
 
#217      
Calvin
aaeismacgychel said:
My guess is the B10 will tack on additional players to be suspended, but the lengths of the suspensions will be underwhelming especially if MSU is waiting on the B10 to levy length of suspension. If I were to bet on this, I'd say the kid attacking the player with his helmet will be indefinitely suspended, likely dismissed from MSU, and will never play another game in the B10. I would bet that the three other suspended players will be suspended for the rest of the season for their roles in punching/kicking. I think #4 should be included in this group but ultimately won't be, and instead he'll be suspended a game, along with a few other players. I'd also expect several security guards to be terminated from their positions. That'd be my best bet (I don't have any insider information on this).

The reason I think the B10 will act on this is that this is an embarrassment to the conference and they'll want to show they're serious about punishing this behavior especially with the impending lawsuit. Plus Warren as Commissioner has shown a willingness to suspend, but on the very lenient side.
Click to expand...

From the Bleacher Report - "Michigan State fell to 3-5 with Saturday's loss, and things won't get easier this week, as the team will be massively short-handed in a road matchup against the Illinois Illini, who are 7-1."

I suspect the suspensions will be harsher than the usual slap on the wrist. MSU's season is a disaster, and there's no reason to let anyone off easy or protect the team. It's like in basketball when a team isn't going to make the dance and voluntarily bans themselves from the post-season. If they were 7-1, I think they'd try a lot harder to downplay it, but right now the biggest issue is the PR problem (or maybe Tucker's contract). If they can look tough and say they've cleaned house, now's the time.
 
#219      
Captain 14
the juiceman cometh said:
So kind of but not really. I think what you're describing is workman's comp and it's not that the duty is heightened, it's that the duty is kind of irrelevant. An employee injured in the course of work is entitled to compensation under workman's comp, regardless of whether there was any negligence or fault on the part of the employer. The flipside, and why employers are ok with such a system, is that awards are typically quite a bit less than they would be in a regular civil suit.

So basically if there is an employer/employee relationship, and the Michigan players were acting in the course of their employment when they got beat up, it probably doesn't even matter if Michigan has any fault, it'd be compensble either way. If the injury wasn't in the course of work, the employer/employee relationship is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Has a student athlete EVER been considered an employee of a university?
 
#220      
fulton steamer
I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, but I've never seen so many posts the start with, "there's no excuse for what they did, and then go on to make 10,000 excuses, from Harbaugh, to a tunnel, to Michigan arrogance, to they must have said something. It doesn't matter. That's Michigan's problem. Your'e only responsible for your own actions. Gimme a break.
 
#221      
BretMyBeachHouse
fulton steamer said:
I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, but I've never seen so many posts the start with, "there's no excuse for what they did, and then go on to make 10,000 excuses, from Harbaugh, to a tunnel, to Michigan arrogance, to they must have said something. It doesn't matter. That's Michigan's problem. Your'e only responsible for your own actions. Gimme a break.
Click to expand...
To me it's like defensive driving. You can not practice it and probably pick up some insurance claims from all the bad drivers out there who are 100% to blame for the accident you get in. Then you have all the hassles of rental cars, auto repairs, etc.

Or you can avoid the accidents.
 
#222      
RoundBalcs
pruman91 said:
I read 4 pages of that BS and stopped when they were saying Windmon was trying to deescalate the melee....It sure looks like he put his helmet back on and started to pound on the scUM dude............what is going on in that state ??....same state where peeps tried to kidnap their governor and showing up at the state capitol building packing some serious heat.......whoa nellie...................What is this country coming to ????

JMHO.......................
Click to expand...
I want to stop reading, but it is like a train-wreck, and I can't stop. These posts are ...pure delusion. Let's beat em' and move on to the next one!
 
#223      
IlliniKrush
the juiceman cometh said:
So kind of but not really. I think what you're describing is workman's comp and it's not that the duty is heightened, it's that the duty is kind of irrelevant. An employee injured in the course of work is entitled to compensation under workman's comp, regardless of whether there was any negligence or fault on the part of the employer. The flipside, and why employers are ok with such a system, is that awards are typically quite a bit less than they would be in a regular civil suit.

So basically if there is an employer/employee relationship, and the Michigan players were acting in the course of their employment when they got beat up, it probably doesn't even matter if Michigan has any fault, it'd be compensble either way. If the injury wasn't in the course of work, the employer/employee relationship is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I’m not a lawyer and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night. My question is about Michigan’s liability in regards to the injured Michigan players.
I am liable for people getting injured on my property, loose railing, ice on my sidewalk, an unsecured pool.
How could Michigan not be liable for the what happened to them? Michigan knew the pool should have had a fence around it
 
#224      
dgcrow
OrangeLife said:
Good Lord!! Those people are complete asshats. I used to tepidly root for Michigan State in football (just to piss off Michigan), but I hope those thugs and their psychotic fans never win a game again in any sport. Their entire board is composed of losers and idiots. Let's beat these turds by 50 and kick their fans asses back to Michigan. I am beyond shocked by the degree of lowlife posts on that site.
Click to expand...
Wow. And to think I came within an eyelash of going to Michigan State for graduate school. Sure looks like I made the right decision by picking another school.
 
#225      
the juiceman cometh
IlliniKrush said:
I’m not a lawyer and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night. My question is about Michigan’s liability in regards to the injured Michigan players.
I am liable for people getting injured on my property, loose railing, ice on my sidewalk, an unsecured pool.
How could Michigan not be liable for the what happened to them? Michigan knew the pool should have had a fence around it
Click to expand...
Not a great analogy. For one, there are laws requiring a pool to be fenced in Illinois and many other states and local municipalities. I haven't heard any indication the UM tunnel was not up to code. Second, none of the scenarios you mention involves a clearly at-fault third party. How about this analogy instead: you host an annual pool party and invite your neighbors, including Bob and Jim who you know absolutely hate each other, and even got into a shouting match at last year's party. Your pool only has one set of stairs and while Bob is using it to get in, and Jim is using it to get out, they get into an altercation and Jim drowns Bob in your pool. How liable are you for Bob's death?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back