MSU-Michigan Postgame Scuffle

#176      

RoundBalcs

RoundBalcs
RoundBalcs
#177      

Illinois_2_AZ

Illinois_2_AZ
Illinois_2_AZ
BZuppke said:
Has Harbaugh answered the question as to why the Michigan players were with the other team? What reason did they have not to be in their locker room with their teammates. In fact, at his press conference he avoided the question. So I do wonder why. And it appears Michigan did nothing after this from James Franklin last year:

"I prefer to talk about these things in the offseason, but the one tunnel is a problem," Franklin said Tuesday. "It's a problem, and has been. To me, we need to put a policy in place from a conference perspective in my mind that's going to stop it. We're not the first team to kind of get into a jawing match in the tunnel. For me, I want to focus on getting my team into the locker room and not jawing back and forth.
"Want my team to get in the locker room and their team to get in the locker room. There really should be a policy that the first team that goes in, there’s a buffer. Because if not, this team starts talking to this team, they start jawing back and forth, and something bad is gonna happen before we put in the policy."
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I was wondering the same thing when I watched the first video that was released- why were the two Michigan players away from the rest of their teammates? Not excusing the MSU players in any way, but the above question needs to be addressed.
 
#179      

Illinois_2_AZ

Illinois_2_AZ
Illinois_2_AZ
aaeismacgychel said:
One thing I will say for MSU to give them benefit of the doubt (whether or not they deserve it). When any major incident happens you won't necessarily have all the details, evidence, or interviews available to find all people who participated in that incident. The 4 they suspended were the most easily identifiable as committing assault and battery. It is possible as more video and evidence comes out they will suspend more and more, and it is certainly my hope they do that, as a player like #4 grasping a Michigan player so that his teammate can wail on him should certainly be suspended. That said, I would not be shocked at all if MSU decided to throw the four players they suspended to the wolves while trying to keep everyone else from being punished. MSU's history both with Larry Nassar and the 2015 basketball player alleged rape case showed an alleged willingness to go great lengths to cover up/dismiss felonious actions by their players and employees. So while I do hope they do what is right here, I'm not expecting them to. Because, let's be honest, they also could have easily dismissed those four players from the team instead of simply suspending them and put them in front of the school board for expulsion.
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Don't forget about the shenanigans that went on at MSU when George Perles was head football coach. I lived in Lansing for a few years and heard stories about football players throwing innocent students through plate glass windows. Afterwards these types of events would be totally covered up by MSU's campus police, as well as athletic department and would eventually disappear.
These were all stories I heard from lifelong Spartan fans.
 
#180      

fuddrules

F
fuddrules
the juiceman cometh said:
I've actually defended personal injury cases and think it's a stretch. For one, the "dangerous condition" is a large tunnel that the injured player knew led to both locker rooms. And the injured player knew about the Penn St. incident. Google "open and obvious."

Also, the plaintiff would bring in all possible defendants, which would include Michigan State, the individual players, likley Michigan State coaches, and certainly whoever was running security (local police?). The jury (if it got to that point) would then allocate responsibility between all parties, who would pay their share of the award (I don't think Michigan has joint and several liability). What percentage do you think Michigan ends up getting, particularly with a jury located in the state of Michigan?
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Depends on discovery and depositions. What are the chances James Franklin would be deposed? How about some Ohio State staff? The defendants attorney could sling a whole bunch at an entire University (Michigan) that has a massive budget with a bunch of paid professionals and a known problem. The plaintiff's attorney is after a couple of 20 year-olds that got in a fight. Oh Boy.

The defendants attorney is also tracking what changes will be made after the MSU melee. Why didn't they make these changes before? Cost? Did they like to intimidate their opposition?

Michigan, if they've figured it out, needs this to go away more than MSU.
 
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#182      

the juiceman cometh

T
the juiceman cometh
fuddrules said:
Depends on discovery and depositions. What are the chances James Franklin would be deposed? How about some Ohio State staff? The defendants attorney could sling a whole bunch at an entire University (Michigan) that has a massive budget with a bunch of paid professionals and a known problem. The plaintiff's attorney is after a couple of 20 year-olds that got in a fight. Oh Boy.

The defendants attorney is also tracking what changes will be made after the MSU melee. Why didn't they make these changes before? Cost? Did they like to intimidate their opposition?

Michigan, if they've figured it out, needs this to go away more than MSU.
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Riiiiiiiight. Sorry in advance everyone for the long response filled with lawyer speak but armchair lawyering often means complete disinformation, and

I Dont Like That Bill Burr GIF by Saturday Night Live


On depositions, sure you can depose almost anyone you want. The problem is actually being able to use that testimony. It has to be relevant. And by that I mean legally relevant, not relevant to internet message board users. In most jurisdictions that means for a prior incident to be admissible it has to be pretty much the same incident, and it has to be relatively recent. Let's say 10 years. So show me the incident where a player was cornered and beaten in that tunnel in the last 10 years. That gets in. The Penn St. PBJ incident, or OSU shouting match, probably don't.

Also subsequent remedial measures (i.e. fixing a hazard after the fact) are pretty much absolutely never admissible as evidence of the hazard. The obvious reason for this is that if you could use it as evidence nobody would ever remediate a hazard for fear it would be used against them. And I don't even know what "did they like to intimidate their opposition" means or what it has to do with this. Football teams always try to intimidate their opposition, I really just don't understand the point here.

Btw, did you google "open and obvious"? Because if you're going to use the Penn St. incident as proof Michigan should have been on notice, you're setting yourself up for a potential summary judgment on those grounds. The Michigan player would have also been on notice, so the hazard would have been open and obvious. Case over.

And if you think juries are going to have sympathy for 20 year old men beating on another 20 year old man then congratulations, you obviously have little to no experience with our criminal justice system, may we all be so lucky.

This is not to say there's zero risk to Michigan. You never know. But in my opinion this is one where if I'm in Michigan’s legal office I'm not really worrying about it.

Relaxed Chill GIF
 
#185      

fuddrules

F
fuddrules
the juiceman cometh said:
Riiiiiiiight. Sorry in advance everyone for the long response filled with lawyer speak but armchair lawyering often means complete disinformation, and
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Yada yada yada.
the juiceman cometh said:
This is not to say there's zero risk to Michigan. You never know. But in my opinion this is one where if I'm in Michigan’s legal office I'm not really worrying about it.
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>>his is not to say there's zero risk to Michigan. You never know.<< Well you know, right.

Let's see where this goes and how aggressive Michigan wants to pursue this incident. The proof will be in the outcome.
 
#188      

fuddrules

F
fuddrules
Has it been noted here that Gemon Green has hired Tom Mars - same attorney Bret Bielema used vs. Arkansas. I don't imagine that's to help him with criminal charges. I also don't expect MSU/the MSU players to just roll over for Michigan.

Will Mars go after Michigan too?
 
#190      

lstewart53x3

lstewart53x3
Scottsdale, Arizona
lstewart53x3
fuddrules said:
Has it been noted here that Gemon Green has hired Tom Mars - same attorney Bret Bielema used vs. Arkansas. I don't imagine that's to help him with criminal charges. I also don't expect MSU/the MSU players to just roll over for Michigan.

Will Mars go after Michigan too?
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Safe to say this situation is far from over
 
#191      

GForce

GForce
GForce
Calvin said:
Googled MSU fan forums, and got these gems for headlines from fansided:

"Mel Tucker handled situation like a leader"
"Mel tucker made right call with swift suspensions"
:sick:🤮
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... as a ploy to get ahead of the narrative with the hopes of keeping his star LB available for Saturday's game."
 
#193      

redwingillini11

redwingillini11
White and Sixth
North Aurora
redwingillini11
Looks like Justin White is a backup nickel back, Jacoby Windmon is a starting linebacker / edge rusher, and Brandon Wright is a sometimes starting defensive end. Malcolm Jones appears to be a reserve freshman cornerback.
 
#194      

Scoregasm

S
Scoregasm
Illinois_2_AZ said:
Don't forget about the shenanigans that went on at MSU when George Perles was head football coach. I lived in Lansing for a few years and heard stories about football players throwing innocent students through plate glass windows. Afterwards these types of events would be totally covered up by MSU's campus police, as well as athletic department and would eventually disappear.
These were all stories I heard from lifelong Spartan fans.
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MSU has a long history of cover ups. Rampant steroid use, rape allegations for the football/basketball programs, and of course, Larry freakin Nassar. Talk about a lack of institutional control. It is a renegade athletic department and has been for years.
 
#195      

LouHenson

LouHenson
LouHenson
Ander1345 said:
From what I read he's still not fully recovered from a ACL injury so he was heading to the locker room.

Need a full investigation. If he was being instigative, fine, punish him too. But if he was just happy his team won, you can't gang up on someone for that.
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I hope you don’t think I was implying that? Just was strange seeing him in with all the MSU players is all.
 
#198      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
Navy_illini said:
Will the Big Ten weigh in any suspensions or are they content with MSU handling thus far
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My guess is the B10 will tack on additional players to be suspended, but the lengths of the suspensions will be underwhelming especially if MSU is waiting on the B10 to levy length of suspension. If I were to bet on this, I'd say the kid attacking the player with his helmet will be indefinitely suspended, likely dismissed from MSU, and will never play another game in the B10. I would bet that the three other suspended players will be suspended for the rest of the season for their roles in punching/kicking. I think #4 should be included in this group but ultimately won't be, and instead he'll be suspended a game, along with a few other players. I'd also expect several security guards to be terminated from their positions. That'd be my best bet (I don't have any insider information on this).

The reason I think the B10 will act on this is that this is an embarrassment to the conference and they'll want to show they're serious about punishing this behavior especially with the impending lawsuit. Plus Warren as Commissioner has shown a willingness to suspend, but on the very lenient side.
 
#199      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
hooraybeer said:
4 more suspended.. 8 total now
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Did not see this before my repost to this thread. I will give MSU some credit for continuing to suspend after that first suspension. Now the question will be how long they suspend everyone for.

Windmon (#4) and Wright (#26) are the two additional players from the helmet assault I pointed out so glad to see them suspended and rightfully so. White (#30) and Jones (#36) I'd need to rewatch the video to try figuring out their roles. Maybe from the gang punching and kicking?