Illinois 78, Minnesota 60 Postgame

[pruman91]

Illinois beats Minnesota behind double-double from Matthew Mayer

Matthew Mayer's 19 points and 10 rebounds helped Illinois to its fourth-straight win.

www.stltoday.com

MINNEAPOLIS — Illinois withstood early foul trouble and a bumpy first half, and then took its chance to rip the game away.
A run early in the second half gave Illinois a double-digit lead and it didn’t look back in a 78-60 win over Minnesota at Williams Arena on Monday.

Matthew Mayer had 19 points and 10 rebounds while Sencire Harris had seven points, seven rebounds and three assists in a start after leaving the game against Michigan State on Friday with a knee injury. Jayden Epps added 10 points while Terrence Shannon Jr. had 11 points on 2-of-12 shooting with four rebounds and four assists.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

I think to assume that he was likely at least PART of the problem…was a fair read based on the limited information we were privy to at the time.

And, what mounting evidence that was available wasn’t real good. He publicly called his coach out..AND publicly got into an altercation with a member of his own team. (not in the confines of Ubben)
His defensive effort wasn’t there like it is now….we didn’t dream that. La Tulip isn’t
the oracle of all things basketball…but he observed it too.

The implication that the dribble entry on the
Spread offense was too difficult to initiate was bizarre and didn’t add up. I still am perplexed by that. Brad’s a good enough coach he could have 5 of us beer-belly middle age goofballs running it competently in about 2.5 practices…maybe less. LOL

It’s all history at this point…and who really cares.(because things ARE going well now-YES!!!!!) But it was almost common sense to to be suspicious at the time.

**However, I’m more than willing to accept that he wasn’t the main buzzkill…Why? basically because E.F. Sutton says so…lol

Your first sentence tells the whole story — limited information. And I posted this yesterday I believe, but I really think people were processing this “information” under the lens of him not meeting expectations early. If he had been putting up point totals more like Shannon was, I think far fewer people would have jumped to the conclusion that Matt was the problem.

Like you said, it doesn’t matter much now that things have turned around. But I do think it speaks in general to fans’ need to blame people when things aren’t going as well as they expected. And we do so with pretty limited information. Of course some fans like to expand their pool of information by analyzing such tried and true purveyors of information as body language and demeanor on the bench.

 

[john1952]

Getting the feeling our defense is wearing opponents down, they seem to running out of gas with 10 mintues to go.

Got to be a little disheartening when Lieb and Rogers come off the bench and play great defense.

 

[Ga65]

Think MM should get credit for leadership in speaking up when it wasn’t working. Give BU more credit for having enough self confidence to not let his ego get into the way. He made the adjustments and it’s working. Easy to be connected when you are having success. Starting records each year have not been great but tweaking the systems have been a strength. This team has talent but not easy to harness in limited time.
Size in the front court, shooting at all positions, and a lot of speed. That fast break bucket by Sencire would rival TJ and the three was also sweet. Ty is a tiger around the rim offensively and defensively. We may not catch PU but no one is going to want to play us.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Was it really unrealistic to expect him to shoot better than 27% from 3? I don't think anyone was expecting him to carry the team, but if he's wide open, he was expected to bury those shots.

Maybe not carry the team, but I think if you read through preseason threads you’ll see plenty of predictions that he’d make a Johnny Davis like jump in production and might not be back next year.

He had a pretty decent all-around game last night. Maybe it is just me wanting to have hope, but he does seem to be playing better and contributing more in other areas the last few games. Hopefully he can build on that and turn it into better shooting.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Honest question: what changed between his time under Groce and now? It's the same Fletch but much better results.

Good question. Better players? Better support from coaching staff emphasizing to players the importance of what Fletch does? More accountability put on players by BU? On the recruiting side, probably as simple as being given a bigger platform and role in visits than previously.

 

[IllinoisssssssVarsity]

Honest question: what changed between his time under Groce and now? It's the same Fletch but much better results.

Easy answer? The athletes we’re bringing in now have a higher baseline than the athletes we were bringing in then.

@Indy Illini Fan or @illini0440: Is Fletch in a “dream job” scenario where as long as he is fairly compensated he plans to stay? Or does he have bigger career goals where we have to prepare to eventually lose him?

 

[blackdog]

Easy answer? The athletes we’re bringing in now have a higher baseline than the athletes we were bringing in then.

@Indy Illini Fan or @illini0440: Is Fletch in a “dream job” scenario where as long as he is fairly compensated he plans to stay? Or does he have bigger career goals where we have to prepare to eventually lose him?

Well he is married to the women's S+C coach so have to imagine he doesn't plan on going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[blackdog]

B1G refs at their finest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615148475607400448

 

[illini0440]

Easy answer? The athletes we’re bringing in now have a higher baseline than the athletes we were bringing in then.

@Indy Illini Fan or @illini0440: Is Fletch in a “dream job” scenario where as long as he is fairly compensated he plans to stay? Or does he have bigger career goals where we have to prepare to eventually lose him?

I don’t see where else he’d want to go. I mean his wife is the women’s strength coach….don’t think he’s gonna ask her to pack up and leave for a lateral move.

 

[doowink]

Good question. Better players? Better support from coaching staff emphasizing to players the importance of what Fletch does? More accountability put on players by BU? On the recruiting side, probably as simple as being given a bigger platform and role in visits than previously.

Culture

 

[Big Jack]

B1G refs at their finest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615148475607400448

Ok that was a horrible call the first second I saw it at full speed. Even Bardo said it was his own man that ran him over on tv. Between the call on MSU tonight and this whomever is in charge of the B1G refs needs canned for providing the fans and players with substandard officials.. As is standard in baseball these days if you can not review the call on a replay monitor confer with the other 2 refs then make the call.. One of them had to have a better view. If not then lets replay everything from now on.

 

[Ransom Stoddard]

Ok that was a horrible call the first second I saw it at full speed. Even Bardo said it was his own man that ran him over on tv. Between the call on MSU tonight and this whomever is in charge of the B1G refs needs canned for providing the fans and players with substandard officials.. As is standard in baseball these days if you can not review the call on a replay monitor confer with the other 2 refs then make the call.. One of them had to have a better view. If not then lets replay everything from now on.

I understand the sentiment, but we don't need 3 hour games either.

 

[STATS GUY]

Maybe not carry the team, but I think if you read through preseason threads you’ll see plenty of predictions that he’d make a Johnny Davis like jump in production and might not be back next year.

He had a pretty decent all-around game last night. Maybe it is just me wanting to have hope, but he does seem to be playing better and contributing more in other areas the last few games. Hopefully he can build on that and turn it into better shooting.

May be finding the shoulder injury and leading to not being able to lift with Fletch is carrying over here. Need RJ at full strength,

 

[Big Jack]

I understand the sentiment, but we don't need 3 hour games either.

At my age I got nothing but time

 

[PIT_ILL]

To be fair, as fans the data points we were working from were:
1. Matt’s presser where he essentially said there were locker room issues (‘not on the same page’)
2. Rumors of Matt getting in a tussle pre Mizzou game
3. Rumors of Matt not being a fan of Brads hard nosed practice style.

Key words here being rumor. I’m happy things have turned around. Would be interested in understanding what really was happening behind the scenes during that challenging stretch.

On 3 wasn't it him that TSJ had an issue with on not practicing hard before the season?

 

[DAM1298]

Maybe not carry the team, but I think if you read through preseason threads you’ll see plenty of predictions that he’d make a Johnny Davis like jump in production and might not be back next year.

He had a pretty decent all-around game last night. Maybe it is just me wanting to have hope, but he does seem to be playing better and contributing more in other areas the last few games. Hopefully he can build on that and turn it into better shooting.

To be fair, I think the predictions of a Davis/Murray type of leap came before all the portal action. I was one who thought he’d make a big jump, but it obviously wasn’t going to happen once TSJ and Mayer were on board. Only so many touches to go around.

 

[PIT_ILL]

This. Edey isn't going to make enough layups to beat us single handedly. I would stay home on the shooters and let Edey wear himself out trying to go for a career high.

Edey will not be able to defend Hawkins or Dain when they pull him out from under the basket. On the other side of the court I think you go for ball denial maybe even throw in some zone. If he gets the ball down low just let him have the 2.

 

[USAFILLINI]

Was critical of the staff but man it’s just cool to watch how they have brought this team together. They are having fun again on the court.

Huge kudos to BU who a lot of people (me included) thought was too harsh on some of the kids. Sounds like he has adjusted his approach towards some while still maintaining his high standards. Not an easy task but the results show on the court.

 

[WyattEarp]

Your first sentence tells the whole story — limited information. And I posted this yesterday I believe, but I really think people were processing this “information” under the lens of him not meeting expectations early. If he had been putting up point totals more like Shannon was, I think far fewer people would have jumped to the conclusion that Matt was the problem.

Like you said, it doesn’t matter much now that things have turned around. But I do think it speaks in general to fans’ need to blame people when things aren’t going as well as they expected. And we do so with pretty limited information. Of course some fans like to expand their pool of information by analyzing such tried and true purveyors of information as body language and demeanor on the bench.

Not to belabor the point…and I don’t know if you’re generalizing everyone as a “blamer.”

But my personal read certainly wasn’t based on point totals; and it wasn’t based on body language. I can’t speak for everyone. So I won’t.

It’s pretty tedious business to start guessing about people’s motivations for the
conclusions they make. Almost as tedious as guessing about motivations based on body language…wouldn’t you say?


Obviously, reading body language is often subjective at best; particularly when you’ve got a quirky, mildly eccentric guy like MM.

I read the situation on the things I described in my post. (Things he ACTUALLY DID.) It wound not surprise me if others did as well.

Things are evidently better now, so it no doubt matters litttle. But do I really have to rewrite my honest perceptions at the time…
(that were based on some pretty objective stuff)…just to fit your generalization?

 

[21ChampaignSt]

Edey will not be able to defend Hawkins or Dain when they pull him out from under the basket. On the other side of the court I think you go for ball denial maybe even throw in some zone. If he gets the ball down low just let him have the 2.

At the risk of turning this into a Purdue pre game thread - I don't expect Hawkins or Dain to have particularly good games against Purdue. But to your point, the value they'll add is pulling Edey away from the paint, opening it up for others. It'll be a fun match up. Wish we got them in Champaign.

 

[TGNAG]

Ok that was a horrible call the first second I saw it at full speed. Even Bardo said it was his own man that ran him over on tv. Between the call on MSU tonight and this whomever is in charge of the B1G refs needs canned for providing the fans and players with substandard officials.. As is standard in baseball these days if you can not review the call on a replay monitor confer with the other 2 refs then make the call.. One of them had to have a better view. If not then lets replay everything from now on.

I did a small amount of officiating in my early married years 25-30. It is a thankless job. Sometimes the athletes are so quick that you sprint trying to get in position to make a call. You don't always have the best angle, and yet you have to make that call... It is not easy and with replay we say oh what a terrible call. Do they miss some....? Yes. Do they get 98 % correct .. Yes they do......

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Not to belabor the point…and I don’t know if you’re generalizing everyone as a “blamer.”

But my personal read certainly wasn’t based on point totals; and it wasn’t based on body language. I can’t speak for everyone. So I won’t.

It’s pretty tedious business to start guessing about people’s motivations for the
conclusions they make. Almost as tedious as guessing about motivations based on body language…wouldn’t you say?


Obviously, reading body language is often subjective at best; particularly when you’ve got a quirky, mildly eccentric guy like MM.

I read the situation on the things I described in my post. (Things he ACTUALLY DID.) It wound not surprise me if others did as well.

Things are evidently better now, so it no doubt matters litttle. But do I really have to rewrite my honest perceptions at the time…
(that were based on some pretty objective stuff)…just to fit your generalization?

It was objective stuff in that it happened, but then people put their subjective spin on it to conclude MM was the problem. And I think some people found it easier to get to that conclusion because he was under performing.

My post wasn’t meant to call you out. I just think as fans — and I can be as guilty as anyone — we look for things to decipher to explain things about our team’s bad performance. And we really have very little good information to justify some conclusions. Twitter is full of this. It’s why I don’t read most posts/comments there. At least on this board we sometimes get additional info and can have civil conversations about such matters. It’s why I’m here and keep coming back.

 

[GrayGhost77]

I don’t see where else he’d want to go. I mean his wife is the women’s strength coach….don’t think he’s gonna ask her to pack up and leave for a lateral move.

Also, our facilities now are among the best in the country, if not THE best. That combined with a supportive coach and AD who are very much behind him and everything that he does, why the heck would he leave?

 

[spotter]

Looks like a corner has been turned.