Whenever I see a game end like that it irritates me a little. When a team is playing out the clock in a game that both sides know is long over, and takes a shot clock violation turnover with seconds to go, then the losing team takes a shot, I don't like it. How do most people feel? How do the players and coaches feel about it?
Illinois 69, Ohio State 60 Postgame
Well , that makes the end of last night’s game when we were just dribbling out the clock and they were chucking threes a little too consequential. After all of the talk of us not beating them by double digits since 2013, it was just mildly annoying that we didn’t get that even as a trophy (effectively that was a double digit win). But I could shrug that off as not a big deal and be proud that the team I root for is a bunch of mensches that are good sports and don’t run up the score. But if margins of victory affects NET which affects seeding, that kind of irks me.
Underwood trying to save Dain for next year!!!
blackdog
- Champaign
While we’re talking about heights…at one point during the broadcast they showed the Illini bench and Perrin looked an inch or two taller than Lieb. Maybe the conversion of his height from cm to in was off
Something something neck length
danielb927
Orange Krush Class of 2013
- Rochester, MN
Valid point that our 3pt shooting is not elite - however, 40% was just an example. The theory applies regardless of the numbers. We are averaging 33% from 3 on the season, so anything 50% or better inside the arc is higher-value than our "average" 3pt attempt. However, most teams don't get that much better at shooting by stepping 5 feet in from the arc to a mid-range jumper, so the comparison just goes from "55% from 2 is worse than 40% from 3" to "45% from 2 is worse than 33% from 3".
As others have suggested, I think the real key is "good" vs. "bad" 3pt attempts. Qualitatively, a decent number of our threes have been contested shots off the dribble. I would guess we're shooting even worse than 33% on those, and more like 38-40% on open threes within the flow of the offense. We need to cut down on the "chucking" because it takes away from the ultimate goal, which is still shots around the rim or high-quality 3pt looks.
I actually think this is the Hyde team we saw. It’s when these kids overthink and play nice that we get b@&ch slapped.
This team needs to play with a tude!!
Dain was in early foul trouble....but I thought he did a better job of keeping Key out of the paint than he did with TJD....Key tried backing and bumping his way much like TJD into the paint but Dain did a better job of holding his ground and forcing Key to kick the ball back out....and then Ty, Coleman, Mayer and company did a great job of covering .....much better job defensively by everyone last night!
danielb927
Orange Krush Class of 2013
- Rochester, MN
Some systems try to identify and ignore "garbage time" points, so that last 3 may or may not have had an impact. I don't know if NET does this or not.
More generally, it's a pick-your-poison situation - either toss out all the info from margin of victory (which is a LOT of info), or live with some inconsistency between the team's goal (win by any amount) and the system's input (points scored). In general, the 2nd option seems to give you much better predictive power.
As a fan, totally agree that losing the double-digit win was a huge bummer.
I thought it was kind of bush league but take the 3, we'll take the W.
Just win baby
My wife asked why Underwood told them to take the turnover....I explained a little....then announcer says something about first time Illinois has beaten OSU by double digits at home (maybe under BU or something along those lines)....
Wife asks why doesn't Illinois just take a shot instead of the turnover (she thinks it's dumb). I tell her it's more of a respect thing ..."we know we won, so we won't pile on". BUT THEN I told her I agree it is kind of dumb, because the other team is going to for sure take a shot to try and get their points and make the loss closer. and BOOM, it happens and its now only a 9 point win (which in the end, I think it means nothing to the Illini.)
Zed is a lot slower than TJD and plays a lot more traditionally than him as well. Dain really struggled with TJD's quickness both on and off the ball. To be honest, the entire team did. While TJD was able to bully him into the paint a couple times, I think the coaching staff will tell him to pull out the chair next time he gets a shoulder to the chest. And to be fair, if Dain lowered the shoulder on TJD similarly, he'd be immediately called for a charge- that's just what comes with being the bigger guy. Dain can hold his own physically, and has done so quite well this year, but a quick skilled 4 like TJD is just a bad 1 on 1 matchup for him right now. That said, Dain does have solid footwork and agility in his offensive sets, so it is possible that in a couple years he could be able to translate that to his defensive game with good coaching.
Metrics are always tough to depend on because they remove context. In theory, during a blowout a team should be able to empty its bench so guys who don’t normally play get some more experience and the players you depend on get rest and avoid injury. With systems that can factor in garbage time, that’s great. But for those that can’t it skews things too much if those metrics are used for anything important like seeding. Even non-blowouts can use context. Team A beat Team B by one possession (2 pts) at home. What if I told you the game ended on a buzzer beating 3? It would make a huge difference if it was the losing team that was down by 5 at the buzzer or the winning team that was down by 1. In one case, that game was effectively out of reach by the last possession but in the other case the outcome was on the line.
danielb927
Orange Krush Class of 2013
- Rochester, MN
Agreed, no system can perfectly capture all of these nuances. But at least they're getting better - in women's volleyball they still use RPI heavily for tournament selection. I don't miss those days for hoops.
He has no idea what he’s talking about. No height….?
So glad for the win. I loved the aggressive attack of the rim. I feel like we struggle when we live and die by the 3, felt like this game was different.
I thought the same thing. Not sure if that was just the player making the decision to fire away or how that really came about. Build those KenPom ratings. lol
At the end of the day, most of this type of stuff evens itself out. Sometimes we are the one making the game look closer than it really is, sometimes we are pushing a 4 pt victory to 13 because a team doesn't stop fouling and we hit our FT's. It balances out most of the time.
But your point is one of the reasons NET is just a tool, one of many metrics the NCAA uses to seed. If NET was the end all be all, and teams were seeded exactly according to their NET ranking....then many coaches would be keeping their foot on the gas for 40 min.
USAFILLINI
- Florida
Hansborough is the reason UNC lost John Wall. He was a DBag to Wall on his recruiting visit and what cause him to not go to UNC which was his dream school. TH reminds me of the guy that cant let go of living the college life too.
Lesson learned.
Hansbrough is a fairly new addition to that group and you're right, he's absolutely brutal. Not just for Illinois commentary, he's overall terrible.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
NET isn’t used by the committee to rank you, it’s used to rank the teams you’ve played.
Well, to be fair, he attended UNC. I assume he is likely illiterate.