Really tired of the Brad can’t coach hot take!!!!
Pregame: Illinois vs Arkansas, Thursday, March 16th, 3:30pm CT, TBS
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Loren was there for the first ball to go in the peach basket and has a steel trap for a mind, he would know
They usually stagger them after the first 2 games. This was last years 2nd round for example.
1 game at noon EST
1 game at 2p
1 game at 5p
1 game at 6p
2 games from 7-8
1 game at 8:40p
1 game 9:40p
Impartial criticism != hate. I’m pretty sure we all want this team and this staff to succeed. Do you realize the amount of free time people invest on this site? It’s not a bunch of haters just hanging out here. It’s not hate to provide valid criticism of a team that one may be a fan of. I totally disagree with the posters here that equate fan loyalty to a lack of criticism.
Brad Underwood resurrected this team from a garbage state. Had he failed to do so it may have been a death knell for this program. Regardless of what happens with him and Texas or whatever, the next coach and this program will forever owe him the appreciation for bringing this program back to relevance.
In my opinion it doesn’t make me any less of a fan to point out he is developing a trend of losing to less talented teams. This is a trend that the best coaches in the game simply do not have. The best programs have bad games; UVA for example was the first 1 seed to lose to a 16, but it’s not a trend with these coaches.
When a more talented team loses to less talented teams it’s often because of scheme, effort, or luck.
Luck is an anomaly, and there have been too many of these games to be attributed to luck.
Effort is something BU has made a signature of this program; everyday guys, right. Well, every player on this roster is BUs, and if effort is a consistent problem then is he getting everyday guys or not? This is by his own definition. They all come in to the program labeled as everyday guys by BU himself, but then what happens when the get here?
That leaves scheme. Effort cannot overcome being out-schemed, and can actually make it worse moving guys further out of position, etc.
Nothing above is a personal attack, and valid criticism; there is no hate.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
Dude's just defending his old man is all
We are all on here as fans. I do not believe there should be any need to discuss our coach being fired but I also don’t think the criticism needs to be shut down. I go to other blogs that one side is completely vilified and that is just plain wrong. There are some concerning trends and stubbornness but I appreciate coach’s toughness. He has turned the ship around and is getting us to the tournament. Try to enjoy it until we break the trends.
He’s won more game in league play than anyone else the last 3 years….luck? Scheme? Playing hard? We won 20 games this year with a team that can’t shoot a lick. Luck? Naw we’re one of the unluckiest teams in college basketball. Can you tell us the scheme he employs? How many different offenses we’ve tried/ran? How many defensive adjustments we’ve made? There is some stuff I don’t agree with but I haven’t watched all the film of our practices/ games nor of the opener scouts soooo
Orange unis on Thursday?
… and Saturday?
… and Saturday?
We can still criticize….it’s not like there are no coaching and playing weaknesses otherwise we would be undefeated.He’s won more game in league play than anyone else the last 3 years….luck? Scheme? Playing hard? We won 20 games this year with a team that can’t shoot a lick. Luck? Naw we’re one of the unluckiest teams in college basketball. Can you tell us the scheme he employs? How many different offenses we’ve tried/ran? How many defensive adjustments we’ve made? There is some stuff I don’t agree with but I haven’t watched all the film of our practices/ games nor of the opener scouts soooo
No I cannot tell you the schemes and adjustments, and I’m not suggesting he’s a bad coach. I want to avoid a strawman here that I’m saying he’s a bad coach. I’m saying there are other coaches that are doing a better job of scouting and scheming against the Illini, then the Illini are doing against them and that’s enough to overcome the talent advantage we have, and so far been the ceiling for the last 3 years you mention. Btw, Juwan Howard is not one of them.He’s won more game in league play than anyone else the last 3 years….luck? Scheme? Playing hard? We won 20 games this year with a team that can’t shoot a lick. Luck? Naw we’re one of the unluckiest teams in college basketball. Can you tell us the scheme he employs? How many different offenses we’ve tried/ran? How many defensive adjustments we’ve made? There is some stuff I don’t agree with but I haven’t watched all the film of our practices/ games nor of the opener scouts soooo
Tacomallini
- Washington State
I don’t know squat about running a basketball program but, it seems like 0440 might be dropping some hints about their true identity here.There is some stuff I don’t agree with but I haven’t watched all the film of our practices/ games nor of the opener scouts soooo
He/she is the designated leaker on staff. As a public employee, I’d like to know his/her salary.I don’t know squat about running a basketball program but, it seems like 0440 might be dropping some hints about their true identity here.
Let me clarify BU is a great coach, bottom line. I’m just pointing out there has been a ceiling, and I’m attributing that to scheme.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Orange FLYIN’ ILLINI uniforms, I hope you mean.
Better yet … let’s pull a stunner. Bust out the 2005 throwbacks on Thursday and start our run to the Final Four!
Also, people are REALLY overlooking us, and it’s getting me pumped to go out and beat Arkansas. People are talking about Kansas struggling with the Razorbacks like it’s a forgone conclusion we lose. Let’s go kick their a$$!
This is absolute BS. He's lost two tournament games at Illinois. Only one was to a less talented team (and I fully admit he shat the bed on that one). That doesn't come remotely close to a trend.
If you're talking about regular season losses, that happens to the best of them. Duke with 8 McDs AAs loses to teams they are far more talented than. Ditto UNC and Kentucky. Arkansas has way more talent than us and look how many loses they have.
This is a ridiculous take. People somehow build up in their minds we're some super-talented team. We're not, not even close. What was our highest-rated player ranked out of H.S.? In the 40s I believe.
InDaAZ
- Eugene, Oregon
We returned not one key player from last year, had one of the youngest teams in D-1, relied on two transfer Alphas brand new to the system, had a one-time 5-star PG quit mid-season, suffered x-number of injuries…He’s won more game in league play than anyone else the last 3 years….luck? Scheme? Playing hard? We won 20 games this year with a team that can’t shoot a lick. Luck? Naw we’re one of the unluckiest teams in college basketball. Can you tell us the scheme he employs? How many different offenses we’ve tried/ran? How many defensive adjustments we’ve made? There is some stuff I don’t agree with but I haven’t watched all the film of our practices/ games nor of the opener scouts soooo
still made the NCAA tourney…
and the problem was “scheme.”
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I don’t want me defending my position to be taken as arguing BU is a bad coach, but since you brought up only losing two tournaments games - any team BU has been on the staff for has made the sweet 16 once in his entire career as assistant or head coach - 2010.
I agree with your comparisons to Duke, UNC, Kentucky; especially Kentucky since Calipari not only needs a stable of 5 star future NBA players but he also needs that future NBA all-pro HOF/MVP player. The difference is those teams have post-season highs to balance the losses.
A S16 maybe, and E8 definitely run this year would go a long way in negating my comments.
Your comments don't really need any 'negating' as you aren't really saying anything useful. Brad is a good coach who hasn't been to the Final Four yet. That's your take. It's not like adding a bunch of differing extrapolations or permutations of your argument (ie, repeating the same thing over and over and over again) is going to make it stronger one way or another. You're bringing a pretty mild argument, if any argument at all. You're saying we can criticize the coach for various things? Wow. So profound. Seems we need another several posts about this.
Back on topic, let's roast us some Hogs on Thurs!!! ILL!!
I don't!
Man... What the heck happened to this thread? Sigh, people always want to criticize the coach anytime things don't go perfectly to their own expectations, no matter how real or fanatastical those expectations are. Back in the Self days, he was criticized by fans for looking like "a deer in headlights" in clutch situations. In the Weber days, he was criticized for basically everything under the sun from not being able to recruit to not being able to coach, relate to, or develop players, and for "destroying the program", and my personal favorite, not being able to teach our players not to turn the ball over or teach offensive sets (sound familiar?). As for Groce, well, nothing more really needs to be said there. So it makes sense that a lot of these people would stay the course with Underwood, expecting perfection.
I think people fail to realize is that while yes, the successes or failures of a season begin and end with the coach, that each team is going to deal with their own unavoidable struggles, some which will be easy to get past, and others that will be incredibly difficult. We expected huge things this year because we had a mega-talented 5 star PG, we brought in 2 of the biggest names in the portal, and we returned a possible NBA draft pick in CoHawk and a Sophomore ready to make a gigantic All-B10 caliber leap in RJ. Welp, the 5 star PG never quite got over the freshman hump and left the team, RJ struggled mightily with injury and sophomore slump, CoHawk is the always mercurial CoHawk, and those two big time portal transfers have much different mindsets from one another that keep them from being on the same page. Now if people want to blame the coach for that, I get it, but aside from roster building/team construction during what should have been a rebuilding year, there was a heck of a lot outside his control this season.
When you look back at Illinois basketball over the past 30 years, the fact is we've had a lot of things happen outside of our control that fall into the awful luck bucket and that the coach and team would wind up paying for, rightfully or not. From the Bruce Pearl incident, to the Jamar Smith incident, to the Chester Frazier injury right before the tourney, to the Jereme Richmond debacle, to the Kendrick Nunn incident, to Trent, Andre, and Jacob all being injured right before the tourney. And then there's this year where you have 2 players leaving the team in the middle of the season, having no true point guard, and upperclassmen deciding not to fully buy in to the coaching strategy. Had we known this would happen before the season started, I think our expectations probably would have been much much lower. And yet we still finished 1 game out of 2nd place in the B10. Go figure...
For those on the ledge, just know that 1 year or season, especially one that featured a lot of rebuilding, doesn't make a trend. We've got back to back great classes coming in, we seem to still be a big ticket portal destination, and we've got a fantastic young core to build around. Plus, despite what the naysayers say, we're not quite done yet this year and have a favorable path that could still see us making some noise. We seem to be in very good position for being a possible title contender in 2-3 years. Let's try and enjoy it.
I think people fail to realize is that while yes, the successes or failures of a season begin and end with the coach, that each team is going to deal with their own unavoidable struggles, some which will be easy to get past, and others that will be incredibly difficult. We expected huge things this year because we had a mega-talented 5 star PG, we brought in 2 of the biggest names in the portal, and we returned a possible NBA draft pick in CoHawk and a Sophomore ready to make a gigantic All-B10 caliber leap in RJ. Welp, the 5 star PG never quite got over the freshman hump and left the team, RJ struggled mightily with injury and sophomore slump, CoHawk is the always mercurial CoHawk, and those two big time portal transfers have much different mindsets from one another that keep them from being on the same page. Now if people want to blame the coach for that, I get it, but aside from roster building/team construction during what should have been a rebuilding year, there was a heck of a lot outside his control this season.
When you look back at Illinois basketball over the past 30 years, the fact is we've had a lot of things happen outside of our control that fall into the awful luck bucket and that the coach and team would wind up paying for, rightfully or not. From the Bruce Pearl incident, to the Jamar Smith incident, to the Chester Frazier injury right before the tourney, to the Jereme Richmond debacle, to the Kendrick Nunn incident, to Trent, Andre, and Jacob all being injured right before the tourney. And then there's this year where you have 2 players leaving the team in the middle of the season, having no true point guard, and upperclassmen deciding not to fully buy in to the coaching strategy. Had we known this would happen before the season started, I think our expectations probably would have been much much lower. And yet we still finished 1 game out of 2nd place in the B10. Go figure...
For those on the ledge, just know that 1 year or season, especially one that featured a lot of rebuilding, doesn't make a trend. We've got back to back great classes coming in, we seem to still be a big ticket portal destination, and we've got a fantastic young core to build around. Plus, despite what the naysayers say, we're not quite done yet this year and have a favorable path that could still see us making some noise. We seem to be in very good position for being a possible title contender in 2-3 years. Let's try and enjoy it.
No, my take is BU teams have an inherent ceiling in the tournament because they’re scheme limited, and the tournament has a higher concentration of well coached teams than the regular season. This explains the regular season success contrasted with the post season struggles, as well as the persistent regular season struggles against certain teams. This trend is observable throughout BUs entire career as an assistant coach and head coach.Your comments don't really need any 'negating' as you aren't really saying anything useful. Brad is a good coach who hasn't been to the Final Four yet. That's your take. It's not like adding a bunch of differing extrapolations or permutations of your argument (ie, repeating the same thing over and over and over again) is going to make it stronger one way or another. You're bringing a pretty mild argument, if any argument at all. You're saying we can criticize the coach for various things? Wow. So profound. Seems we need another several posts about this.
Back on topic, let's roast us some Hogs on Thurs!!! ILL!!
Nice rah rah at the end of your post. Let’s rah rah now, and then !!!! on all the players in the game thread when halfway through the first half the team looks completely lost. Let’s just keep that trend going.
Back to the Arkansas-Illinois game portion of the thread, one big reason for optimism is that the advanced betting metrics as well as analytical outlets like kenpom favor Illinois covering the 2.5pt spread suggesting Illinois as 1-2 points better, meaning that while the majority of bettors will favor Arkansas, smart money will be on Illinois in this one as this will be a near pick 'em with Illinois getting 1.3:1 odds. Very good sign for us.
the national
- the Front Range
Not sure who needs to see this but as a reminder….
South Carolina is my side piece team, and he's not wrong, lol. However, what he should remember about that game in front of the less-than-sellout crowd is that the Muss Buss almost drove away with an L, in spite of that fact.South Carolina fans after watching this
As trash as the Gamecocks were this year (little thanks to the play of one Benjamin Bosmans-Verdonk), that kinda says something.
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