Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#701      
So I think it’s fair to say in the portal/NIL world, roster continuity/getting old and staying old seem to account for a lot.

With that in mind, should we adjust our recruiting targets somewhat? Are the Brock Harding/Braden Smith/Boo Bouie types who maybe don’t have the highest ceiling more valuable because presumably they are going to be bought in program guys who stick around for 4 years? I realize with Smith and Bouie’s successes maybe there is a bit of confirmation bias there but the point remains.

We just seemed to have hitched our wagons to the opposite types of players lately and that’s hurt us IMO. Even if Ace and Belo didn’t live up to their rankings having a pair of junior guards with 3 years in the system would appear to have value. And I will root for the kid like heck and he clearly has talent, but with 4+ high schools under his belt plus a PITA parent, DGL certainly seems like a flight risk.
 
#704      
If we're prosecuting body language crimes from this season that doesn't make the top 50.
That looks like a normal work day for me. Me being Epps and I haven’t quit my job yet. Emotions run high, if the boy has any discipline at all he’ll take it as coach cares about me, wake up the next day and try harder. Not tuck his tail and run away to a different program. I would think he’s smart enough to know that no matter what basketball team you play for if you mess up you’ll be chewed out for it.
 
#706      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
With that in mind, should we adjust our recruiting targets somewhat? Are the Brock Harding/Braden Smith/Boo Bouie types who maybe don’t have the highest ceiling more valuable because presumably they are going to be bought in program guys who stick around for 4 years? I realize with Smith and Bouie’s successes maybe there is a bit of confirmation bias there but the point remains.
This is the wrong way to think about it, IMO.

In the portal/NIL world no one is super likely to stick around for 4 years. The kind of player you're talking about targeting is a guy like Brandin Podziemski or Alan Griffin.

I feel like the way to keep a stable roster and build that culture is almost more like a regular workplace (as opposed to analogizing it to the weird and specific and collectively bargained pro sports world). Pay them well, deliver on what you promise, and create a positive environment people feel successful and valued in. Some turnover is inevitable, but the more you can do those things the better you will do relative to your competition.

This is an important offseason for BU's program to prove it can operate that way.
 
#707      
I didn't ever see a video like that with Ayo. He seems to be doing just fine with Donovan not handling himself like this.

The 59 yr old in that video should not be red faced screaming obscenities in the 18 yr olds face.

It's not a good look for our program.
Definitely not a good look for BU. There is no reason for anyone other than a drill instructor to get in someone's face like that
 
#708      
I think it is normal to think about a year once it is over, and while it didn't end the way we wanted, but some perspective is important--

We had to replace something like 80% of our scoring
We brought in 8 (9?) new players
We took the risk on having 2 freshman PG. One didn't work out.
One starter (Goode) was basically out for the year.
Another sophomore didn't make the jump we wanted, though his future is still bright (RJ)
We had to switch our offense completely with Kofi gone
We changed our defensive approach in the middle of the year
None

YET, we still won 20 games and made the Tournament. Given everything we faced, it was a good year.

The problem-- can we sustain any success if every year we have 7-9 new people? Is that even possible? Especially if we don't recruit many people in the top 30?
 
#709      
This is the wrong way to think about it, IMO.

In the portal/NIL world no one is super likely to stick around for 4 years. The kind of player you're talking about targeting is a guy like Brandin Podziemski or Alan Griffin.

I feel like the way to keep a stable roster and build that culture is almost more like a regular workplace (as opposed to analogizing it to the weird and specific and collectively bargained pro sports world). Pay them well, deliver on what you promise, and create a positive environment people feel successful and valued in. Some turnover is inevitable, but the more you can do those things the better you will do relative to your competition.

This is an important offseason for BU's program to prove it can operate that way.
Fair point. It’s such a tightrope though. How do you augment the roster via the portal and make your existing guys feel valued?

I’m still convinced some combination of Trent/DaMonte coming back for a 5th year and getting Skyy/Shannon cost us Podz. Think there would have been a role for him last year without the Covid bonus year but then again we probably don’t win the BIG. So I think you make that trade although we sure could have used Podz this year and going forward.
 
#710      
Fair point. It’s such a tightrope though. How do you augment the roster via the portal and make your existing guys feel valued?

I’m still convinced some combination of Trent/DaMonte coming back for a 5th year and getting Skyy/Shannon cost us Podz. Think there would have been a role for him last year without the Covid bonus year but then again we probably don’t win the BIG. So I think you make that trade although we sure could have used Podz this year and going forward.
What does Podz do for us vs Arkansas?
 
#711      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
I didn't ever see a video like that with Ayo.
Ayo's freshman year was the peak of rage-monster BU.

Norms and expectations are changing and BU needs to change with them, which he's undeniably done some of. This team was a real challenge for him though. He didn't know what buttons to press with these guys, and was very candid publicly about that.

With a situation like Skyy Clark, I think it's clearly just a matter of a bad fit and the player not making a well thought out decision. But if Epps goes that's a teachable moment for Brad.
 
#712      
Ayo's freshman year was the peak of rage-monster BU.

Norms and expectations are changing and BU needs to change with them, which he's undeniably done some of. This team was a real challenge for him though. He didn't know what buttons to press with these guys, and was very candid publicly about that.

With a situation like Skyy Clark, I think it's clearly just a matter of a bad fit and the player not making a well thought out decision. But if Epps goes that's a teachable moment for Brad.
Maybe it’s the coach in me but I don’t see it as a problem. I also don’t see it as a first time reaction to that specific Epps problem (whatever it was in the moment). That’s like a, “we have had this conversation a million times” reaction, and a “stop trying to ignore after we’ve had this conversation a million times” reaction.

At the HS level I couldn’t and wouldn’t do this. At the college level? BU isn’t the first and won’t be the last.
 
#713      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
It’s such a tightrope though. How do you augment the roster via the portal and make your existing guys feel valued?
That's why there are so many zeroes on BU's checks.

What does Podz do for us vs Arkansas?
Make one freakin' basket, for starters.

No one realized it, but Podz was the successor to the Griffin-Miller-Plummer role, which is essential in this system. Someone needs to be able to drag the defensive gravity out to the corner.

Kind of a lost season for Goode, he's still promising in that regard. But a knock down shooter should be target #1 in the portal.
 
#714      
That's why there are so many zeroes on BU's checks.


Make one freakin' basket, for starters.

No one realized it, but Podz was the successor to the Griffin-Miller-Plummer role, which is essential in this system. Someone needs to be able to drag the defensive gravity out to the corner.

Kind of a lost season for Goode, he's still promising in that regard. But a knock down shooter should be target #1 in the portal.
Our 6’9 guy who’s played in bigger situations and is way more athletic than Podz literally couldn’t get a bucket on Arkansas yesterday. A much smaller, slower guy is going to? I don’t know that I buy that.
 
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#715      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
At the HS level I couldn’t and wouldn’t do this. At the college level? BU isn’t the first and won’t be the last.
The high-major talent has dramatically more power in the coach-player relationship today than he did when BU began as a D1 head coach a decade ago.

That's the reality and it ain't changing. The winners will be the best adjusters to that new reality. BU is a great adjuster, I have confidence in him.
 
#716      
Any chance there ends up being a couple players remotely like Plummer or Jalen Pickett in the portal that we might have a shot at getting?
 
#717      
The high-major talent has dramatically more power in the coach-player relationship today than he did when BU began as a D1 head coach a decade ago.

That's the reality and it ain't changing. The winners will be the best adjusters to that new reality. BU is a great adjuster, I have confidence in him.
Fair, but doesn’t change my initial point that it probably wasn’t the first time, and at some point, a college coach is gonna get like that, especially when it costs you in a game.
 
#718      
That's why there are so many zeroes on BU's checks.


Make one freakin' basket, for starters.

No one realized it, but Podz was the successor to the Griffin-Miller-Plummer role, which is essential in this system. Someone needs to be able to drag the defensive gravity out to the corner.

Kind of a lost season for Goode, he's still promising in that regard. But a knock down shooter should be target #1 in the portal.
Still think this season looks different if Goode is healthy all year. After he got up to speed sure looked like he was capable of shooting 35%+ from 3 on decent volume. And although not the most athletic he is rarely out of position defensively. This team desperately needed both.

Not saying he would have solved everything but think we win an extra game or 2, which maybe gets us on the 6 or 7 line. Still doubt we would have made the S16 but who knows.

But every team has injuries/adversity. Teams had bigger losses than Goode and overcame it.
 
#720      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Fair, but doesn’t change my initial point that it probably wasn’t the first time, and at some point, a college coach is gonna get like that, especially when it costs you in a game.
Honestly my view of it is just don't do it out on the floor where the cameras can see you.

Which sounds hypocritical and unprincipled, but my genuine feeling is that doing that to a player out in the open is showing him up publicly in a way that's substantively worse than doing it person-to-person in practice.

BU is a Huggins-Martin guy. He is at the in-your-face end of the spectrum compared to other coaches. Also like Huggins and Martin he's a bitingly, witheringly sarcastic person. Kids that take that the right way, the way it's intended, are always going to really respond to that and feel a lot of love from him and loyalty to him. But it's not for everyone.

I wouldn't play for BU. I just wouldn't thrive in that environment. But I also wasn't a very successful athlete for not entirely unrelated reasons. I was a think-too-much space cadet and that's not going to gell with BU, see Mayer, Matthew.
 
#721      
I just have to laugh at all of the people mentioning Brad's language and demeanor, chewing players out, etcetera. All coaches do this. Or, at least, the good ones do.

If BU was out of line by the way he's treating players publicly and during games, wouldn't there be some kind of news or story about this by now? There are, however, plenty of news stories about coaches that HAVE crossed the line. I suggest maybe looking those up and reading them to get a frame of reference.

Bunch of snowflakes who've obviously never picked up a basketball before... geezus...
 
#722      
Would hate to see Epps go
I agree, but he will need family or friend to have a tough love talk with him. He just needs to be convinced to accept so coaching. His talent is good, and he stepped in to a top program as a starting PG. Plus he can get good NIL $$. He can obviously go somewhere else and play and get $$. But I hope someone can point out the path of Ayo vs Curbelo.
 
#725      
What does Podz do for us vs Arkansas?

1. Make Half the Shots The Mayer Missed
(Our Stars that we lived and died by weren’t stars.)

2. Just generally show up…with an modicum of energy and play with the chip on his back that obviously has.


Arkansas was very, very beatable…and we more than had our chances. Even as lackadaisical we played most of the game. We lost by 10 as it was.

I hate this hindsight woulda-coulda-shoulda stuff…but like I said…
if Pods knocks down
half the shots Mayer missed and spreads a little infectious energy around by playing with that chip on his back that he obviously has we win that game.

Podz defense is MUCH improved too. I have no idea what have actually happened. Who knows? But, he just might of gotta ya a steal. He’s not a shot blocking threat like Mayer…but I have to think he doesn’t get burned backdoor multiple times like that… Why? Pride.Chip. Heart. Give a Damn.
 
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