Illini Basketball

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#276      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
PIT_ILL said:
Anyone remember when KU fans were dragging Self through the mud for his early exits at the beginning of his tenure?
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As astounding as this sounds, if Self doesn't get lucky and get to play a #12 seed in the Second Round and a #9 seed in the Sweet Sixteen during his first season, does that fan base even stick with him going into 2007, when he would truly break through and get another Elite Eight and really have it going from then on? We have fans up in arms about losing two Second Round games and a First Round game as a #9 seed even after we spent several years in the wilderness, whereas Kansas was humming along when they hired Self:

2004: Elite Eight as a #3 seed
2005: First Round as a #3 seed (loss to a #14)
2006: First Round as a #4 seed (loss to a #13 ... go Braves!)

Keep in mind this was a year after he lost as a #4 seed in the Second Round at Illinois, and we all know how quickly (and unfairly) narratives form about this kind of thing. If #5 Providence beats #12 Pacific in the 2004 First Round or #1 Kentucky doesn't lose to #9 UAB in the Second Round and Self doesn't make the Second Weekend, he's on the hot seat entering 2007 ... I bet they're glad they were patient, lol.
 
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#277      

One Man Fast Break

O
One Man Fast Break
With the $5 million salary that Illinois can offer and the state of the art facilities, I really think Illinois is an attractive coaching spot (and why we snagged Underwood after one year at OkState). Things are definitely different when Groce came, who was probably like a 3rd or 4th choice candidate at a nadir of Illinois athletics.

This power 2 Big Ten media deal is going to have a massive effect on Illinois's ability to spend in Basketball compared to lots of other "basketball schools". Like Arizona, nice history and all, but are they going to outspend Illinois moving forward? If the "next" Boswell is being offered significantly more NIL at a place like Illinois than Arizona, can he really turn that down?
 
#278      

fuggles

F
fuggles
ChiefGritty said:
It's going to be Shannon and Hawkins' team, and Shannon is a guy who drifts in and out of games, and Hawkins is a guy who is sometimes a real problem on offense with his passivity, and both of them are pretty low-key personalities.
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If we are counting on those guys to lead the team next year, then we will have another disappointing year. Both of them are "let me wait for the game to come to me" guys. We need more than that from our leadership. I think guys like Sincere and Goode, who both have much stronger personalities, can lead the team. Maybe Ty. Not sure about him yet.
 
#279      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
fuggles said:
If we are counting on those guys to lead the team next year, then we will have another disappointing year. Both of them are "let me wait for the game to come to me" guys. We need more than that from our leadership. I think guys like Sincere and Goode, who both have much stronger personalities, can lead the team. Maybe Ty. Not sure about him yet.
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Effective leadership is about relationships. Expecting a guy to lead a team he joined a few months before the season wasn't going to work. TSJ will have a better opportunity to be that guy if he returns. Hawkins' issues have, IMO, been about maturity. Not everyone matures at the same rate, but often when people are college age it happens suddenly. I think everyone learned a lot about what teamwork doesn't look like this year. Failure is a great teacher and motivator.
 
#280      

DouggeyAlt

D
DouggeyAlt
PIT_ILL said:
That last sentence doesn't make the post look to great. The talent level has been down in Illinois since the days of Okafor and Parker. Sure there is D1 talent but HM talent pool isn't what it once was.
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I wouldn't put Okafor or Parker in the same sentence as Rose and Unibrow but yeah I get what you are saying. But... still plenty of talent to develop and make good teams with in Illinois.
 
#281      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
fuggles said:
If we are counting on those guys to lead the team next year, then we will have another disappointing year. Both of them are "let me wait for the game to come to me" guys.
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I get what you're saying, but I think they're actually two very different players. Opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how much their game is focused on finding their own shot.

They're both just kinda people who march to the beat of their own drum. Nice, intelligent, hard-working kids. But we got used to guys like Ayo and Trent Frazier for whom every molecule of their DNA is directed toward winning the game. Those are leaders of great teams. We had guys like Giorgi and Curbelo on our best BU teams who weren't that way, but they didn't set the tone.

To be fair though, the biggest goof on this team was Mayer, and the biggest problem child (and worst actual performer) was Clark, so you could see some potential to improve. But then there's gonna be so much Melendez and Dainja potentially, and those guys don't really have the "cold blooded killer" personality either.

I dunno. I'm struggling with this. I think we're fooling ourselves if we think Goode and Harris are going to be tone-setters, that's not how it works.
 
#282      

fuggles

F
fuggles
Emerson Bigguns said:
Hawkins' issues have, IMO, been about maturity.
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I would agree with most of what you said. Except the above. Coleman is too laid back. He isn't going to force his will on a game. Mature or not. I could be wrong, or not.
 
#283      

Big Jack

Big Jack
Decatur
Big Jack
DouggeyAlt said:
Election 2020 Lol GIF by Joe Biden
Ranked #1 and got beat by in state Loyola in the tournament. Good times!! lol The man has done nothing in the big dance. More good times!!


Talent leaving in the portal. Team this year got worse as the season went on. More goody good times!!
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#285      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
fuggles said:
If we are counting on those guys to lead the team next year, then we will have another disappointing year. Both of them are "let me wait for the game to come to me" guys. We need more than that from our leadership. I think guys like Sincere and Goode, who both have much stronger personalities, can lead the team. Maybe Ty. Not sure about him yet.
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Unfortunately, I do think we're caught in a bit of limbo on this front ... Sencire and Ty have the attitude to be our "crunch time Alphas," but they might not be quite there yet to be a sufficient offensive threat next year, specifically their jump shots. On the other hand, I love both Hawkins and Shannon and I think we desperately need both back, but we have seen what both offer on the leadership front - and it won't do.

I suppose a dream scenario for next year is Goode becomes our "sentimental" team leader (i.e., vocal and rallies us when we're down and need some fire), Shannon/Hawkins/Melendez function as potentially go-to guys in crunch time when we need a bucket but are not the "rah rah leaders" on our squad (i.e., maybe a bit like Luther was on our 2005 team?) and Sencire/Ty are taking really good notes on it all and getting in line for succession!

I actually don't think there is anything wrong with not having ONE go-to guy when we need a bucket. That is what we had in Ayo, and it was great a lot of the time ... but everyone knew where the ball was going, as well, and a team like Loyola that effectively neutralized him had us spinning our wheels. Did the 2005 team really have one go-to guy?? I guess by the end of the year you could say Deron had emerged as that, but I would say no. They all could be counted on to hit a big shot, regardless of who the "leader" technically was. That's the goal.
 
#286      

DouggeyAlt

D
DouggeyAlt
SCMART Illini said:
DouggeyAlt can go cheer for another team if he doesn't like the Illini. Or maybe? he already does. Guessing this guy is trolling. I could see some Michigan fans needing to let off some steam. Things could be worse.
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Cry moar. I have started cheering for the Illini women. They don't turn it over as much

LMAO at some of this Illini base who can't handle facts. Like I enjoy losing to in-state Loyola while a #1 seed and then watch the #12 Beavers beat them like it was nothing. ALL because they adjusted to a zone.



yeah
 
#289      

bluemountain

B
bluemountain
Poe's Law said:
Fans upset with Underwood for lack of tourney success is the comparison he was making (if I’m allowed to put words in his mouth).

Add Jay Wright to that list as well.
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Ehhh, not exactly the best comparison. Self made it to the Elite 8 twice before he got to KU and made the EE his first year there. Jay Wright made the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 respectively in years 4 and 5 after inheriting a pretty meh program from Steve Lappas
 
#290      

DouggeyAlt

D
DouggeyAlt
I wish all the Illini fans that are content with losing to Penn St 3 times, along with getting stomped by Missouri and Indiana at home would stop saying things are getting better.
 
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#292      

One Man Fast Break

O
One Man Fast Break
I think it makes sense to not want to create an expectation that players post that they're coming back. Fans start @ Luke Goode, @ Ty Rodgers, to make a post, then it's onto the next guy, etc. etc.

Some guys just need to take a second and breathe, talk to their family, etc. It doesn't mean that they are going to leave or anything, they just don't need to "re-commit" all over again each year.
 
#293      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
Does anyone know when the meetings with current players are supposed to happen?

Maybe I should rephrase this...would those that know, care to share when meetings with current players are expected to take place?
 
#296      

DocMorgan

DocMorgan
DocMorgan
DouggeyAlt said:
Brother I love Illini bball. Watch 30+ games a year even in Texas. Biggest thing is the blowhard coaching style. Ain't gonna work in todays culture and it's going to be a big reason for kids leaving.

Watch this FAU guy coach. Positive, calm.. lol it can be done.


And I'm not saying the group this year was a high IQ group of leaders. But BU put them together and they looked good in November. Real good so why such a 180? Best recruit in years leaves..
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Nice to meet you Mrs. May. Enjoy the experience!
 
#298      

SoILIllini

S
SoILIllini
DouggeyAlt said:
FAU coach I've said here a few times now. Or promote an assistant? Someone who doesn't scream and can help players improve.

Any player improve this year besides Ty Rodgers?
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So let me get this straight, you want to hire a coach who's greatest post season achievement prior to this year is getting knocked out in the first round of the CBI to replace Underwood?

Here's the kicker(and the only reason I made this post), May's first exposure to coaching at the college level was working under the red faced, screaming Bob Knight himself.. 😂
 
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