Illini Basketball

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#251      

DouggeyAlt

D
DouggeyAlt
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Unless you are willing to say a solution, you are just whining for no other reason than to try to get us to join in on your misery and give it some company. Do you suggest firing Underwood in the coming weeks, or should we all just complain more while we keep him? If the former, who are some realistic candidates you are considering to replace him?

If you don't have a real answer to any of that, I think you should get some fresh air and really ask yourself why you posted this in the first place. Like, you think we aren't all upset not making it to the Sweet Sixteen or further or with how this season went? Scroll through ANY thread, and you'll very clearly see that's not true. One can feel both of those things and still think Underwood is the best man for the job, so if you don't ... enlighten us!

EDIT: Ah, I see now - four posts. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: (n)
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Florida Atlantic coach seems like a cool cat under pressure. And now he's gotten further than BU as the Illini HC.


How does a team that talented beat UCLA and Texas get this bad so fast? Easy answer and no it's not because of Skyy
 
#253      

One Man Fast Break

O
One Man Fast Break
DouggeyAlt said:
Cherry picking for 22-23 years produces a lot of cherries. The big 10 is not even close to as athletic as the SEC, ACC, Pac 12, Big 12 and it's obvious.


BU's best team got beat by in-state Loyola and the game wasn't even close. #12 Oregon St adjusts, plays zone and beats Loyola. Tell me a legit 2nd round NCAA tourney game by BU/Illinois that was close. lol

He's not a good coach
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I think Underwood can recruit pretty well and put together successful rosters, so from like "GM" standpoint, he's a good program builder. And if we were still in the days where kids were "trapped" and couldn't transfer without sitting that'd lead to a lot of overall success, but yeah as an in-game type of coach, he's obviously not rated super highly. Like yeah, three pointers are good, analytics and all. Yet this team was garbage at them, but we never seemed to get it coached out to STOP. SHOOTING. THREES. A better coach can make those adjustments mid-season, a guy like Underwood just hopes that they'll start making them and the problem will magically fix itself.

The big issue though is that now kids can transfer out without being punished for it. Alan Griffin, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, Brandin Podziemski, Skyy Clark, now looking like Dain Dainja and Jayden Epps. These aren't guys that had no future, we're just bleeding out recruited talent left and right. Heck, Kofi Cockburn was an All-American and even he from some reason was considering jumping ship by going in the Portal rather than play for a Coach that he knew could implement a system around him already, and then eventually did to go play for a garbage team in the Japanese B League (follow your dreams..) Underwood can get kids here, but he can't keep them. If you can't retain talent, and you can't outscheme the opposition, then what do we have here? We had 2 first team All Americans and got a couple of good seasons that ultimately resulted in two Round of 32s out of it. Now we're going to slip further and further unless we can stop all the player turnover.

Underwood rebuilt the program and for that I'm grateful. He was a step up from Groce, but it does look increasingly more likely, and as much as I hate to admit it, that the Illini are going to have to make a move if they're going to get back to being the program they want to be.
 
#254      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Calvin said:
That seems fair. In some ways he's a victim of his success, getting consistently to the tournament and having expectations ratcheted up. OTOH, a slew of early tournament exits is going to get a lot of grumbling, especially when you add the late slide this team had.
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I'm glad our fans care a lot and have high expectations, those are some of the biggest assets the program has. And I always think criticizing the coach is good where warranted, I think it's dumb to have a cult of personality where the head coach is above criticism, too many college fanbases are like that.

As for this year's team to me the failure was much more in the construction than the execution. Both are Underwood's responsibility and fault, but it just means my focus is more on getting the roster construction mix right going forward than sweating the details of what went wrong with a fatally flawed group.

And Loyola, man, we'll take that one to our graves I'm afraid. Just totally soiled the bed and we're never going to forget it. It is what it is. Even the very greatest coaches don't make it through March Madness without ones that really hurt, but that one hurts more than most.

And to be totally candid, I mostly side with the people who have negative feelings toward the way BU sometimes acts on the sidelines and I wish and hope he would tone it down, as he already did for really a multi-year stretch. The future probably won't be kind to Frank Martin's and the past probably shouldn't have been as kind as it was.

ALL OF THAT SAID, I think any objective look would demonstrate pretty clearly that we're very lucky to have BU and suggesting we part ways and take our chances on the open market are, at this moment, pretty much insane. To be fair that's mostly not what people are saying, and if some of the troubling things about this year's team start to take further hold in the program, the results are going to reveal that and the situation will begin to change.
 
#256      

Epsilon

Epsilon
M tipping over
Pdx
Epsilon
LvilleILL said:
I still think we could have made a deep run had Matt not gone ice cold. Just an awful and unfortunate timing for a huge slump
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And yet perfectly in character.

Edit: just to clarify- he was known to be a streaky shooter before coming here. He was worth the risk- and I think his shooting helped us win some games early on, but it just hurt us at the end of the season. I think it was just a matter of when he’d hit a slump. Agreed it was bad timing.
 
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#257      

DouggeyAlt

D
DouggeyAlt
One Man Fast Break said:
I think Underwood can recruit pretty well and put together successful rosters, so from like "GM" standpoint, he's a good program builder. And if we were still in the days where kids were "trapped" and couldn't transfer without sitting that'd lead to a lot of overall success, but yeah as an in-game type of coach, he's obviously not rated super highly. Like yeah, three pointers are good, analytics and all. Yet this team was garbage at them, but we never seemed to get it coached out to STOP. SHOOTING. THREES. A better coach can make those adjustments mid-season, a guy like Underwood just hopes that they'll start making them and the problem will magically fix itself.

The big issue though is that now kids can transfer out without being punished for it. Alan Griffin, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, Brandin Podziemski, Skyy Clark, now looking like Dain Dainja and Jayden Epps. These aren't guys that had no future, we're just bleeding out recruited talent left and right. Heck, Kofi Cockburn was an All-American and even he from some reason was considering jumping ship by going in the Portal rather than play for a Coach that he knew could implement a system around him already, and then eventually did to go play for a garbage team in the Japanese B League (follow your dreams..) Underwood can get kids here, but he can't keep them. If you can't retain talent, and you can't outscheme the opposition, then what do we have here? We had 2 first team All Americans and got a couple of good seasons that ultimately resulted in two Round of 32s out of it. Now we're going to slip further and further unless we can stop all the player turnover.

Underwood rebuilt the program and for that I'm grateful. He was a step up from Groce, but it does look increasingly more likely, and as much as I hate to admit it, that the Illini are going to have to make a move if they're going to get back to being the program they want to be.
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Cannot tell you how many times I was wanting them to stop shooting 3s and just get to the hole. Build some confidence. That's the biggest thing I saw as the year progressed. Players just not confident. BU screaming. Making farting noises. More bad turnovers. That is going to help players leaving you can take that to the bank.

You think any players wants to be around that?

And ok great he gets us to the tournament. But at some point you need to take the next step. We haven't looked like a legit team in a 2nd round game since Deron Williams? For a state loaded with recruits it's unacceptable.
 
#258      

LoveIlliniHoops

L
LoveIlliniHoops
DouggeyAlt said:
I'm not ok with a down year. This is not Illinois football. The pieces were in place, the team started good and beat legit teams. Then they got worse. Why? Coaching yes 100%. Losing more talent at guard to the portal? Why? Don't call a timeout in a NCAA tourney game with a player on 1 shoe for about 2 minutes? Why?
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Welcome to the group. You create an account and within an hour make quite a splash. You’re obviously highly unhappy with Brad Underwood or interested in his job. 🙄
 
#261      

DouggeyAlt

D
DouggeyAlt
LoveIlliniHoops said:
Welcome to the group. You create an account and within an hour make quite a splash. You’re obviously highly unhappy with Brad Underwood or interested in his job. 🙄
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Brother I love Illini bball. Watch 30+ games a year even in Texas. Biggest thing is the blowhard coaching style. Ain't gonna work in todays culture and it's going to be a big reason for kids leaving.

Watch this FAU guy coach. Positive, calm.. lol it can be done.


And I'm not saying the group this year was a high IQ group of leaders. But BU put them together and they looked good in November. Real good so why such a 180? Best recruit in years leaves..
 
#262      

21ChampaignSt

21ChampaignSt
21ChampaignSt
DouggeyAlt said:
Not sure what you are saying here. BU's best team got beat by in state Loyola in the NCAA tournament. The next game Oregon St took out the Ramblers because they threw a zone at them in the 2nd half.. Hence no more back door cuts. BU never could figure it out.

The team this year got gradually worse. Turnovers were a mess and the half court offense was not good. That's coaching.

The blow hard act is beyond old and the Bob Knight era is waaaay past it's prime. It's almost like some of you are happy with a few Big 10 titles. Tell me the last NCAA Champion from the Big 10? It's been 22 years?

Cmon look at Purdue this year. Illinois should be held to a higher standard than a few top Big 10 conference finishes.
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I agree with your last sentence. But it sounds like we would disagree about whether or not BU is the man for the job?

I can't explain it well, but I think BU will get us to the Final Four because he believes he can. I know how that sounds, but I never really got the impression that BW and JG actually believed Illinois was an "elite" program worthy of Final Four aspirations (even after BW himself took us there). I'm not sure that they ever thought of themselves as one of the elite program leaders in cbb either. I'm not trying to hate on them, but they dont have that alpha personality or that chip on their shoulder that BU does. BU, IMO, is going to do whatever it takes to add a Final Four to his resume because he thinks he's one of the best and he wants to prove it. Again, I know this sounds cliche or whatever, but the first step in accomplishing something is actually believing that you can do it.

But beyond that unquantifiable, fluffy, personality stuff, if you take the last four years and repeat those results for the next four years, BU would have 4 B1G titles, 2 BTT championship, 8 consecutive tourney appearances, and 2 #1 seeds. That would be one of the elitest 8 year resumes in cbb and there's no reason to think he can't achieve that (and no, I'm not saying that would be my minimum expectation either).

My point is that BU is on pace to have one of the best tenures in recent B1G memory. Matta or Ryan or Beilein - esque. He just needs that one special team who makes a deep tourney run. Let's not give up on him yet.

We do agree that post season success should be a requirement at Illinois though and if we do go 4 more years without making any kind of noise in the tourney, I'll start to have my doubts about BU as well. I don't expect that to be the case though.
 
#263      

Homecoming 2019

Homecoming 2019
Chicago
Homecoming 2019
One Man Fast Break said:
I think Underwood can recruit pretty well and put together successful rosters, so from like "GM" standpoint, he's a good program builder. And if we were still in the days where kids were "trapped" and couldn't transfer without sitting that'd lead to a lot of overall success, but yeah as an in-game type of coach, he's obviously not rated super highly. Like yeah, three pointers are good, analytics and all. Yet this team was garbage at them, but we never seemed to get it coached out to STOP. SHOOTING. THREES. A better coach can make those adjustments mid-season, a guy like Underwood just hopes that they'll start making them and the problem will magically fix itself.

The big issue though is that now kids can transfer out without being punished for it. Alan Griffin, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, Brandin Podziemski, Skyy Clark, now looking like Dain Dainja and Jayden Epps. These aren't guys that had no future, we're just bleeding out recruited talent left and right. Heck, Kofi Cockburn was an All-American and even he from some reason was considering jumping ship by going in the Portal rather than play for a Coach that he knew could implement a system around him already, and then eventually did to go play for a garbage team in the Japanese B League (follow your dreams..) Underwood can get kids here, but he can't keep them. If you can't retain talent, and you can't outscheme the opposition, then what do we have here? We had 2 first team All Americans and got a couple of good seasons that ultimately resulted in two Round of 32s out of it. Now we're going to slip further and further unless we can stop all the player turnover.

Underwood rebuilt the program and for that I'm grateful. He was a step up from Groce, but it does look increasingly more likely, and as much as I hate to admit it, that the Illini are going to have to make a move if they're going to get back to being the program they want to be.
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So far, he's lost 1 game he should have won, Loyola, the rest were against flat out better teams, each being favored over us. And I don't think anyone expected the stinker Ayo/Grandison/Frazier would put up that game. One win isn't the difference of being a good or bad coach, he's a good coach because of all the other wins (most in the B1G the last 4 years). Stop with the nonsense.
 
#265      

Poe's Law

P
Poe's Law
DouggeyAlt said:
Cherry picking for 22-23 years produces a lot of cherries. The big 10 is not even close to as athletic as the SEC, ACC, Pac 12, Big 12 and it's obvious.


BU's best team got beat by in-state Loyola and the game wasn't even close. #12 Oregon St adjusts, plays zone and beats Loyola. Tell me a legit 2nd round NCAA tourney game by BU/Illinois that was close. lol

He's not a good coach
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Yikes. So his 2 all Americans don’t have off days playing in a near empty gym at 11 central and suddenly he’s a goo coach in your book? There are plenty of good coaches (maybe not on your grading scale) that would not try to throw a defense they rarely run (zone) out in a win or go home game. You could argue that our pack line defense with Kofi at the rim if he wasn’t getting pulled away from the rim by Rod Farva should eliminate the back door cuts.

You know some people are saying that if you can’t spot the adjustments Underwood tried to make during the loss to Loyola, you simply have a low basketball IQ. I don’t know if that right, but people are saying it.
 
#266      

john1952

john1952
john1952
Do playerrs who transferr through the portal put themslevees at any disadantagge as far as NLI moneey goes?
Or to most large universitties have ampleereesourcees ffor each scholarship athletee on the baskeetball teem?

Any tthougts or insights ion how much the averagee baskeetball playe is making per year from thee NIL program?
 
#267      

PIT_ILL

P
PIT_ILL
Calvin said:
That seems fair. In some ways he's a victim of his success, getting consistently to the tournament and having expectations ratcheted up. OTOH, a slew of early tournament exits is going to get a lot of grumbling, especially when you add the late slide this team had.
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Anyone remember when KU fans were dragging Self through the mud for his early exits at the beginning of his tenure?
 
#268      

PIT_ILL

P
PIT_ILL
DouggeyAlt said:
Cannot tell you how many times I was wanting them to stop shooting 3s and just get to the hole. Build some confidence. That's the biggest thing I saw as the year progressed. Players just not confident. BU screaming. Making farting noises. More bad turnovers. That is going to help players leaving you can take that to the bank.

You think any players wants to be around that?

And ok great he gets us to the tournament. But at some point you need to take the next step. We haven't looked like a legit team in a 2nd round game since Deron Williams? For a state loaded with recruits it's unacceptable.
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That last sentence doesn't make the post look to great. The talent level has been down in Illinois since the days of Okafor and Parker. Sure there is D1 talent but HM talent pool isn't what it once was.
 
#271      

SCMART Illini

S
SCMART Illini
NarrowJ said:
We lost all 5 starters and 90% of our statistical production, had our starting PG quit the team mid-year, among other things. What did you expect this year?

We won 20 games and made the tournament. If that's a down year for us, I'm okay with it.
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DouggeyAlt can go cheer for another team if he doesn't like the Illini. Or maybe? he already does. Guessing this guy is trolling. I could see some Michigan fans needing to let off some steam. Things could be worse.
 
#272      

oldman

O
oldman
I think we should look to the coaching style of all the B1G teams in the Sweet 16 this year and get BU to tailor his court side demeanor based upon the B1G coaches who made it to the Sweet 16. Only one? If there is anyone whose court side temperament served as a model for the way BU behaved on the sidelines it was probably Izzo. Oh, and did anyone catch the Maryland women’s coach talking to her team during a time out? Spit was coming out of her mouth.
 
#273      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
AyoDos11 said:
Would you prefer John Groce?? He did good things here... 🙄
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John Groce isn't really a reasonable comparison to the kind of coach we'd be able to attract, but a big reason for that is because Josh Whitman gives his coaches (including Groce himself) every possible opportunity to succeed and all the resources the program can deliver, so there's absolutely no chance he is actually considering firing BU in reality.
 
#274      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
oldman said:
I think we should look to the coaching style of all the B1G teams in the Sweet 16 this year and get BU to tailor his court side demeanor based upon the B1G coaches who made it to the Sweet 16. Only one? If there is anyone whose court side temperament served as a model for the way BU behaved on the sidelines it was probably Izzo. Oh, and did anyone catch the Maryland women’s coach talking to her team during a time out? Spit was coming out of her mouth.
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The two Big Ten coaches who made it to the Sweet Sixteen are Tom Izzo and Mick Cronin.

That makes it clear: BU needs to be about a foot shorter.
 
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