Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#426      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
PIT_ILL said:
Were they wrong? :unsure:
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For as much as Weber is ragged on on here, it's like people think it's a given that just because you inherit some good underclassmen you're going to go on an extended tourney run to the Championship game and be two final seconds shots away from a perfect season... In fact, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, Bill Self, for all he's heralded on here, probably inherited an even better team from Lon Kruger than the one Weber inherited from Self and "only" took them to an Elite 8 in three seasons. Plus, Weber actually had to "re-recruit" Deron and Dee as Self tried taking both to Kansas with him on the way out the door.

And just some food for thought, if Weber inherited the Ayo, Kofi, and Trent team, how far do we have that team going? Sweet 16? Final Four? National Championship? There were many things Weber was not, but he was one hell of an x's and o's and tourney ball coach.

Was Weber kept as coach for longer than he should have been? Sure. But it's just odd to me that he gets treated by fans worse than Groce does, or hell, worse than even Tim Beckman on here, which quite frankly should be impossible. It's almost like on his way out of town he ran over a bunch of people's dogs. It has been over 10 years- I think we can put it to rest and just enjoy the positive memories. Because if we don't it's just us, Jereme Richmond, and the Jamar Smith car accident in our heads, and that's no way to get through life.
 
#427      

dbeverly26

dbeverly26
dbeverly26
aaeismacgychel said:
For as much as Weber is ragged on on here, it's like people think it's a given that just because you inherit some good underclassmen you're going to go on an extended tourney run to the Championship game and be two final seconds shots away from a perfect season... In fact, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, Bill Self, for all he's heralded on here, probably inherited an even better team from Lon Kruger than the one Weber inherited from Self and "only" took them to an Elite 8 in three seasons. Plus, Weber actually had to "re-recruit" Deron and Dee as Self tried taking both to Kansas with him on the way out the door.

And just some food for thought, if Weber inherited the Ayo, Kofi, and Trent team, how far do we have that team going? Sweet 16? Final Four? National Championship? There were many things Weber was not, but he was one hell of an x's and o's and tourney ball coach.

Was Weber kept as coach for longer than he should have been? Sure. But it's just odd to me that he gets treated by fans worse than Groce does, or hell, worse than even Tim Beckman on here, which quite frankly should be impossible. It's almost like on his way out of town he ran over a bunch of people's dogs. It has been over 10 years- I think we can put it to rest and just enjoy the positive memories. Because if we don't it's just us, Jereme Richmond, and the Jamar Smith car accident in our heads, and that's no way to get through life.
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Yeah. I can get why folks harbor a bit of a grudge for the on-court results but it's often paired with a bunch of petty snark about unrelated stuff, which just sucks. Weber's a genuinely good guy from my experiences with him, and I've never understood why some folks give Groce a halo for his 'personality' but don't extend the same courtesy to Bruce.
 
#428      

Illini1985

I
Illini1985
Indy Illini Fan said:
I don’t hate Underwood … Lol … Brad and I talk quite often … I criticize when necessary and celebrate when necessary … Brad is a very blunt guy and just like to hear it like it is … And I’m not afraid to speak my mind … I literally talked to Brad for a while at an AAU game this week …

Brad knows if we miss the tournament he’s probably getting fired … I don’t understand why everyone thinks he’s so safe when even Brad knows the expectations here ??? And why I somehow hate Brad because I want him to succeed and meet expectations but am simply stating the consequences if he doesn’t ?

Do you think Josh hates him ? Because it’s the exact same convo he’s had with Brad … Come on now …
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What you say here makes sense. If we miss the tourney BU is definitely in trouble.

What I will say is despite the obvious botched PG recruitment, this is still a damn good team on paper. I think most here would agree we're probably better than last year's team. So bringing up missing the tournament just seems like an overreaction to the off-season miss at PG.

I'm disappointed we didn't get a vet PG, but I'm really looking forward to this team next year. I just feel like the negativity talk of missing the tournament is gonna setup up for some overreaction during any type of slump that will happen into the season. That's what annoys me. Why are people so negative when we haven't even struggled on the court yet.

It's ok to be underwhelmed, but despite his flaws BU has earned the right to be given the benefit of doubt until the team actually struggles on the court.

Just my opinion.
 
#431      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
Illini1985 said:
What you say here makes sense. If we miss the tourney BU is definitely in trouble.

What I will say is despite the obvious botched PG recruitment, this is still a damn good team on paper. I think most here would agree we're probably better than last year's team. So bringing up missing the tournament just seems like an overreaction to the off-season miss at PG.

I'm disappointed we didn't get a vet PG, but I'm really looking forward to this team next year. I just feel like the negativity talk of missing the tournament is gonna setup up for some overreaction during any type of slump that will happen into the season. That's what annoys me. Why are people so negative when we haven't even struggled on the court yet.

It's ok to be underwhelmed, but despite his flaws BU has earned the right to be given the benefit of doubt until the team actually struggles on the court.

Just my opinion.
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We need to win and especially in March or I'd definitely see the seat scorching. Would've loved to land a veteran point, but it is what it is. According to shot quality, we were 20th in the land last year with the debacle that was our back court. We can get shots, always have. We have to make shots and we haven't done that in a while. Also, we can't be 231st in turnovers.
 
#433      

KnoxIllini2

KnoxIllini2
KnoxIllini2
antwix said:
Anyway, on to actual RECRUITING news,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1677441481924132864
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Pointing Yes GIF by Peloton


What point guard wouldn't want to play with Morez? Get it done, Brad.
 
#434      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
Illini1985 said:
What you say here makes sense. If we miss the tourney BU is definitely in trouble.

What I will say is despite the obvious botched PG recruitment, this is still a damn good team on paper. I think most here would agree we're probably better than last year's team. So bringing up missing the tournament just seems like an overreaction to the off-season miss at PG.

I'm disappointed we didn't get a vet PG, but I'm really looking forward to this team next year. I just feel like the negativity talk of missing the tournament is gonna setup up for some overreaction during any type of slump that will happen into the season. That's what annoys me. Why are people so negative when we haven't even struggled on the court yet.

It's ok to be underwhelmed, but despite his flaws BU has earned the right to be given the benefit of doubt until the team actually struggles on the court.

Just my opinion.
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Not if that is in fact what he is hearing directly from Josh Whitman. It is neither positive or negative it’s simply what he’s hearing from Brad’s boss.
 
#438      

ptgrd23

ptgrd23
ptgrd23
aaeismacgychel said:
For as much as Weber is ragged on on here, it's like people think it's a given that just because you inherit some good underclassmen you're going to go on an extended tourney run to the Championship game and be two final seconds shots away from a perfect season... In fact, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, Bill Self, for all he's heralded on here, probably inherited an even better team from Lon Kruger than the one Weber inherited from Self and "only" took them to an Elite 8 in three seasons. Plus, Weber actually had to "re-recruit" Deron and Dee as Self tried taking both to Kansas with him on the way out the door.

And just some food for thought, if Weber inherited the Ayo, Kofi, and Trent team, how far do we have that team going? Sweet 16? Final Four? National Championship? There were many things Weber was not, but he was one hell of an x's and o's and tourney ball coach.

Was Weber kept as coach for longer than he should have been? Sure. But it's just odd to me that he gets treated by fans worse than Groce does, or hell, worse than even Tim Beckman on here, which quite frankly should be impossible. It's almost like on his way out of town he ran over a bunch of people's dogs. It has been over 10 years- I think we can put it to rest and just enjoy the positive memories. Because if we don't it's just us, Jereme Richmond, and the Jamar Smith car accident in our heads, and that's no way to get through life.
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Groce is definitely mid major material.

Weber on the other hand -recruiting is a big part of Top 20 MBB coaches job and Bruce was not very good at it. His record at KSU was similar to post Self recruits at Illinois. At KSU he made NCAA 5 out of 10 years. Had only 4 twenty win seasons. Made it to elite 8 once and lost first round the other 4 times. . Weber was an average P5 coach - no championships for being nice guy. the 2004 and 2005 seasons with Weber were fantastic but he never repeated it.

Bill Self was very good at Illinois and even better at Kansas.
1688770669288.png
 
#439      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
aaeismacgychel said:
For as much as Weber is ragged on on here, it's like people think it's a given that just because you inherit some good underclassmen you're going to go on an extended tourney run to the Championship game and be two final seconds shots away from a perfect season... In fact, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, Bill Self, for all he's heralded on here, probably inherited an even better team from Lon Kruger than the one Weber inherited from Self and "only" took them to an Elite 8 in three seasons. Plus, Weber actually had to "re-recruit" Deron and Dee as Self tried taking both to Kansas with him on the way out the door.

And just some food for thought, if Weber inherited the Ayo, Kofi, and Trent team, how far do we have that team going? Sweet 16? Final Four? National Championship? There were many things Weber was not, but he was one hell of an x's and o's and tourney ball coach.

Was Weber kept as coach for longer than he should have been? Sure. But it's just odd to me that he gets treated by fans worse than Groce does, or hell, worse than even Tim Beckman on here, which quite frankly should be impossible. It's almost like on his way out of town he ran over a bunch of people's dogs. It has been over 10 years- I think we can put it to rest and just enjoy the positive memories. Because if we don't it's just us, Jereme Richmond, and the Jamar Smith car accident in our heads, and that's no way to get through life.
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You’re right…it was far from a given. BW did a whale of a job on that run with the 2005 run…and that doesn’t just happen by chance.

As you know it’s also far from a given Bruce would have excelled with the 2021 team. If l had to guess, the first thing he would have tried to do was plug in his motion offense. The upside is there would of likely been more purposeful motion…(especially more than the 2022 team) but would it have been quick hitting enough for that lineup?

Openings materializing late in the
possession probably wouldn’t have been ideal for a team that could get turnover-happy at times. The less scout-able, unpredictable nature of the motion is awesome but I just feel like that team needs more structure than that. JMO

Since we’re getting crazy…to be honest with you. I would have rather seen what would of happened had Lon had the 2021. I think Lon was probably the best at adjusting his offense to fit his personnel AND making in-game adjustments as anyone we’ve ever had. Again. JMO

Bruce Weber’s tenure was a mixed bag. That’s all you can say…one of the best stretches followed by arguably the worst stretch.(Like seriously…objectively bad…see 21ChampaignSt’s research) He was very much a nice guy. But he comes off as a whiner and an oddball to a lot of people. (So I hear.) Yes it’s snarky and probably a little unkind..but I think that’s the reality.

Yes, he could outcoach John Groce or Billy Gillespie on his worst day blindfolded
while in a Jarling’s-induced, semi comatose state.
 
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#440      

Keisersose

Keisersose
Keisersose
Ma
Indy Illini Fan said:
I don’t hate Underwood … Lol … Brad and I talk quite often … I criticize when necessary and celebrate when necessary … Brad is a very blunt guy and just like to hear it like it is … And I’m not afraid to speak my mind … I literally talked to Brad for a while at an AAU game this week …

Brad knows if we miss the tournament he’s probably getting fired … I don’t understand why everyone thinks he’s so safe when even Brad knows the expectations here ??? And why I somehow hate Brad because I want him to succeed and meet expectations but am simply stating the consequences if he doesn’t ?

Do you think Josh hates him ? Because it’s the exact same convo he’s had with Brad … Come on now …
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“Make the tourney”. We saw a BU team make is as a disappointing 9 seed, and we also saw him make it as a 1 seed with a ton of expectations.

If we “make the tourney” like last years team did, imo that’s not good enough.
 
#441      

NASchamp

NASchamp
Atlanta
NASchamp
dbeverly26 said:
Yeah. I can get why folks harbor a bit of a grudge for the on-court results but it's often paired with a bunch of petty snark about unrelated stuff, which just sucks. Weber's a genuinely good guy from my experiences with him, and I've never understood why some folks give Groce a halo for his 'personality' but don't extend the same courtesy to Bruce.
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+1 Bruce is a great guy. I hope no one is seriously doubting that. Lived in the same neighborhood and knew his kids. Way too nice of a guy to be a college basketball coach ☺️.

Sure, his tenure had some disappointments but they all do.
 
#442      

Rap47

R
Rap47
Illini2010-11 said:
Does anyone consider Indiana a blue blood anymore? I sure don't.
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Indy Illini Fan said:
I don’t hate Underwood … Lol … Brad and I talk quite often … I criticize when necessary and celebrate when necessary … Brad is a very blunt guy and just like to hear it like it is … And I’m not afraid to speak my mind … I literally talked to Brad for a while at an AAU game this week …

Brad knows if we miss the tournament he’s probably getting fired … I don’t understand why everyone thinks he’s so safe when even Brad knows the expectations here ??? And why I somehow hate Brad because I want him to succeed and meet expectations but am simply stating the consequences if he doesn’t ?

Do you think Josh hates him ? Because it’s the exact same convo he’s had with Brad … Come on now …
Click to expand...
I am glad to hear that and apologize for misrepresenting your thoughts.
 
#443      

foby

foby
Bonnaroo Land
foby
aaeismacgychel said:
For as much as Weber is ragged on on here, it's like people think it's a given that just because you inherit some good underclassmen you're going to go on an extended tourney run to the Championship game and be two final seconds shots away from a perfect season... In fact, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, Bill Self, for all he's heralded on here, probably inherited an even better team from Lon Kruger than the one Weber inherited from Self and "only" took them to an Elite 8 in three seasons. Plus, Weber actually had to "re-recruit" Deron and Dee as Self tried taking both to Kansas with him on the way out the door.

And just some food for thought, if Weber inherited the Ayo, Kofi, and Trent team, how far do we have that team going? Sweet 16? Final Four? National Championship? There were many things Weber was not, but he was one hell of an x's and o's and tourney ball coach.

Was Weber kept as coach for longer than he should have been? Sure. But it's just odd to me that he gets treated by fans worse than Groce does, or hell, worse than even Tim Beckman on here, which quite frankly should be impossible. It's almost like on his way out of town he ran over a bunch of people's dogs. It has been over 10 years- I think we can put it to rest and just enjoy the positive memories. Because if we don't it's just us, Jereme Richmond, and the Jamar Smith car accident in our heads, and that's no way to get through life.
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I'm sorry, but I have a real issue here. I have no idea how to pronounce your user name. Is that a word?
 
#444      

Mojoman

Mojoman
Mojoman
Indy Illini Fan said:
I don’t hate Underwood … Lol … Brad and I talk quite often … I criticize when necessary and celebrate when necessary … Brad is a very blunt guy and just like to hear it like it is … And I’m not afraid to speak my mind … I literally talked to Brad for a while at an AAU game this week …

Brad knows if we miss the tournament he’s probably getting fired … I don’t understand why everyone thinks he’s so safe when even Brad knows the expectations here ??? And why I somehow hate Brad because I want him to succeed and meet expectations but am simply stating the consequences if he doesn’t ?

Do you think Josh hates him ? Because it’s the exact same convo he’s had with Brad … Come on now …
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Well, this is a tourney level roster in spite of no experience at PG.
 
#446      

altgeld88

altgeld88
Arlington, Virginia
altgeld88
NJJ871 said:
I'm out of my league here mathmatically, but there must be some limit to the one end of that inverse relationship - otherwise the potentially greatest basketball coach of all time would be...

Martin Short Nbc GIF by Saturday Night Live
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Ed had a diabolical crossover dribble, IIRC.

Agreed... coincidentally in the gym early this evening I thought of my hasty, off-the-cuff response and its mathematical implication! (I'm old; I have to rest a long time between sets.)

Yeah. There's obviously a floor on the flip side. The point is that natural superstars rarely if ever contemplate how they're able to do what they do. Guys down the food chain having introspection do. They're talented enough to have played at a fairly high level, untalented enough to have had to work very hard at it, and some have the gift of intelligence and the ability to communicate and motivate.

Also a talent for shouting. Very loudly. And employing treadmills, as well as breaking locker room furnishings, as corrective tools. Even if they can't develop and implement a decent inbounds play.
 
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