TSJ Thread

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#126      

Champaign88

C
Champaign88
So the bar story is correct surely there must be something on video as well. What we don’t know is which version of it is closer to the truth, meaning:

1) original tweet indicated that the girl thought she was hooking up with a football player. She later found out it wasn’t a football player and felt violated

2) post in the last couple pages of the original thread indicated that the girl thought the act was committed by a football player but wasn’t sure, and later identified TSJ as the person

Obviously 2) is much worse if she immediately reported it because she felt violated and simply did not know who the person was and assumed it was a football player. At the same time, why wasn’t there a big scene in the bar if she was not okay with what was going on? Later decided she wasn’t okay with it? I would think being in a public place with lots of people around would be the place to get someone to stop an unwanted advance.

Certainly the fingering in a bar is less common, but two college kids drunk in a bar getting touchy feely with each other happens constantly in campus bars. The lesser of the two charges could probably be applied to 90% of boys that have ever entered a bar and stepped foot on a dance floor while drunk with drunk girls also on the dance floor if the girl has a change of heart afterwards… at least that seemed to be the case from 13-17 years ago when I was frequenting a few campus establishments.

I’m not saying any of this is good, healthy, or that if the woman did not consent to it that it is okay. I’m just saying that something close to this scene is happens several times a night between two drunks in a bar based on my what witnessed during my college experience.
 
#128      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
alaskaillini said:
One question that was not answered - what is the standard to be applied by conduct panel in determining the course of action (i.e. are they a fact-finding panel or do the base their decision of the nature of the allegations made basically assuming they are true). Assume the answer is the mostly the later, where they put the interests and image of the university before that of the athlete.
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While the question was asked, Josh was smart not to answer that one. He is in charge of ensuring that the university is following a process and handing over all available evidence they have received to the panel. He made it clear that the panel is in charge of taking all the received information and making a decision and that he has no part in that. Saying anything about what the panel may be focused on or how they come to their conclusions both opens them up to the court of public opinion and makes it appear he has inside knowledge of the independent panel's inner workings, and that would lead to questions about the panel's integrity. I know we all want, hell even require additional info at this point, but Josh honestly provided a masterclass on how to handle yourself in a public forum, and that's a question you just should not answer if you're in his position.
 
#131      

Illini in Indiana

I
Indiana
Illini in Indiana
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Okay, I just watched this with my wife. She’s a nurse and I’m in consulting, so we have no legal expertise. With that said, I actually kind of wanted to post my/our immediate or “raw” reactions BEFORE I overthought this … besides, a lawyer type will be more than happy to correct me if I’m wrong, right? :cool:

1. As others have said … Whitman is a treasure. He impresses yet again. Regardless of how this all turns out, I’m confident he’ll do what’s best for Illini Athletics.

2. Like others, I kind of got the vibe that if you could read Whitman’s mind there, it’d paint a rosier picture than we have on the surface. Totally guessing, but it came across to me like, “We are very smart and cautious here at the DIA, and I’m not dumb enough to say anything too specific during an investigation … but if it isn’t obvious by my recap of the actions we’ve taken thus far, we are FAR from convinced by this story, and we aren’t going to hang TJ out to dry based on what we consider a shaky allegation.”

3. On that note, I almost wonder if a possible “win” for the DIA and Terrence is if the panel continues his suspension IF they also believe this will soon get watered down? For example, if more facts come out that discredit the allegation or the charges are decreased (can this happen?), they can reinstate him at that time while not looking like they rushed this.

4. All in all, I certainly feel better. This still well my end in a tragic manner, but my gut says TJ is innocent and deserves for the DIA to have his back if/when it becomes “safe” to do so. I also think we’ve been trained as a society lately to never trust your intuition (instead ALWAYS preferring some allegedly “objective” measure even when that’s not available), and I think that’s wrong … I believe your intuition can be spot on just as often as it’s misguided, and it shouldn’t be ignored.

Josh’s repeated comments about the process being so long and Illini athletes often “not having that kind of time” certainly seems intentional to bring up.
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Like others have posted, very well said and summarized.

I love that Whitman is playing with a 5 year vision and not just worrying about this year. I don't want us to turn in to Penn St or Mich St.
 
#133      

LouHenson

LouHenson
LouHenson
IlliniReb said:
Would love to have 0440, Indy, autoposter, and illiniskier (2insiders and 2 attorneys) weigh in here……
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Have blife be one of the attorneys he has been spot on with all of his opinion. I live in Naples and am friends with a huge criminal defense attorney down here, and everything blife has said my friend has agreed with.
 
#135      

Champaign88

C
Champaign88
This is the tweet from last night that is being referenced.

The second version that a poster shared today (here, not on X) was more along the lines of the girl reported the incident and thought it was committed by a football player, but later identified TSJ as the person.

The second text here is wrong. The misrepresentation section of the law has nothing to do with misrepresenting oneself. It has to do with misrepresenting the need for the act and in terms of therapy or medical reasons.
 

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#137      

Keisersose

Keisersose
Keisersose
cuillini said:
Let's pretend the following:

1. TSJ is kicked off the team and potentially expelled.
2. He is then exonerated.

If this happens could he sue the school for the potential loss of substantial income?
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I haven’t posted since this broke. I wanted to hear JW first. I trust JW more than anyone to lead our athletic program.

But I’m thinking the same thing your wrote above here…

If has the right to due process and is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he stands to lose current NIL earnings due to this suspension, and the suspension has an impact on future potential earnings, it seems one could argue.that he cannot be suspended or punished if he has not been found guilty of anything.

I guess this is what the committee will determine (among other things).

Is there any world where TSJ sues the university to reinstate him based on his due process rights and presumption of innocence?
 
#138      

Snoopy

S
Snoopy
As a public institution, I would hope U of I is run in a manner consistent with the principles of the U.S. Constitution, even when it is difficult, from the 14th amendment:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
#140      

alaskaillini

A
alaskaillini
I think it basically impossible that TSJ could be reinstated before hearing on 1/18. The panel will continue his suspension in the short term absent some big revelations from what we know now.
But if I am TSJ's legal counsel I am going before the panel and asking what their standards would be for reinstating him. I would want to know and get on the record the standard with the idea of negotiating with the DA to drop the rape charge or maybe even plea to a lesser charge by 1/18 - hoping to get a suspended sentence (no jail time unless he reoffends) and do some public service like PSA's about consent that could also be used to rehab my client's image. Given the reluctance to charge, this might be possible. Get this on the record in court and done when you are before the judge on 1/18 so it could be approved then. Tell the DA that this is only way they can get a plea in the case if they do it before ruining TSJ's life - assuming the panel would be OK if he accepts responsibility for a very minor misdemeanor sex assault charge. Maybe the panel says his punishment is suspension from the team for time served and a game or two more. But I know very little about criminal practice. I only know I would want some commitment from the panel of how they would respond, and know that they would stick with it.
 
#141      

RML

R
RML
Bootheel Illini said:
If he remains suspended until it is resolved by Kansas and he ultimately is exonerated, he will have been cheated out of his present and possibly future basketball status.
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JW said the procedure that they use (and have used with success multiple times in the past) was specifically set up to address the problem of court resolutions taking too long.
 
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#142      

LouHenson

LouHenson
LouHenson
Dan will have to move this, but the best thing is in 8 minutes we have a game to watch!!!! Best thing possible
 
#143      

fuggles

F
fuggles
voiceofreason93 said:
[snip]
After watching/listening to JW speak I believe one of one of two things, either TSJ withheld details and they took him for his word OR details were divulged and JW&CO decided that money and success were more important than setting a standard meanwhile hoping this would blow over.

TSJ shouldn't be allowed to play again for the U of I unless he is completely acquitted of all of charges. Plain and simple. As a man, father, and brother there is ZERO tolerance for this. From a misdemeanor to a felony. . . .zero tolerance.
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Interesting. This is your take? There is no other interpretation? For example, the woman in the bar was enjoying what happened and then when she found out he was a basketball player from Illinois she got pissed and complained to authorities. That couldn't happen? Or some other nefarious behaviour. BTW I have 2 daughters if that somehow makes what I say more credible.
 
#147      

alaskaillini

A
alaskaillini
aaeismacgychel said:
While the question was asked, Josh was smart not to answer that one. He is in charge of ensuring that the university is following a process and handing over all available evidence they have received to the panel. He made it clear that the panel is in charge of taking all the received information and making a decision and that he has no part in that. Saying anything about what the panel may be focused on or how they come to their conclusions both opens them up to the court of public opinion and makes it appear he has inside knowledge of the independent panel's inner workings, and that would lead to questions about the panel's integrity. I know we all want, hell even require additional info at this point, but Josh honestly provided a masterclass on how to handle yourself in a public forum, and that's a question you just should not answer if you're in his position.
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It was asked about TSJ's case specifically, not the general rules governing the panel. Sure he isn't going to say how the panel is going to look at TSJs case specifically.
There has to be some stated standard that governs how the panel is to evaluate cases. I don' t think the panel just gets to go in there and make up their own rules. These standards of how they are to evaluate these cases should be explained in university policy somewhere - and I wish that had been addressed by JW.
What Josh did offer was that they look at the information available to them at the time. My point is that I cannot see any situation where they take testimony from TSJ and decide if he is telling them the truth, or make any specific determination of what happened in Kansas. They will likely evaluate the charges to determine if they are supported by the evidence. But is it a substantial evidence standard, clear and convincing standard, probable cause, reasonable doubt? Josh says they have to balance due process against the zero tolerance policy of the university regarding sexual assault. Do they weigh the severity of the allegation against the right of the athlete to participate? If so, does the interest of the university in setting an example weigh in, etc.? I just don't see any way these serious of charges can be set aside because the accuser has questionable credibility, or because there were no eyewitnesses, or the hard evidence is otherwise weak.
TSJ only plays if he can get the serious rape charge dismissed and maybe not even then.
 
#148      

ugottabjoshinme

ugottabjoshinme
ugottabjoshinme
Oldskoolkoach said:
Sounds like their was never an official police report, just verbal conversation....maybe I misinterpreted what was said, but that's what I heard.
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That’s not what he said. He said Lawrence PD didn’t provide one in September when they were first made aware that the Lawerence PD wanted to interview Shannon.

They have since seen the police report within the last couple days per what Whitman said.
 
#149      

1970 John

1970 John
1970 John
Are you proscribed from working while out in bail? Asking for a friend.
 
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