TSJ Thread
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texillwek
🔶🔹🔸🔷
And what a response it is. Yikes.
Not seeing much shame in following what a federal judge says you should do
RichardKeenesCousin
Richard Keene's Cousin
1st!!! .... nevermind
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
geez
it’s basketball career suicide if BU doesn’t play him .
these national talking heads lump all these situations together , and automatically assume players are guilty until proven otherwise .
The GA one basically says he learned of TJ and Harmon trip to KU for football game that afternoon. Had concerns of them driving there because long drive (12 hours to/from) and TJ had fallen asleep at wheel before + he had the NIL obligation next day. So he asked Dyshawn to drive them. Basically it.
And no IANAL
JWs reiterates a lot of the stuff in the presser (timeline, process they follow etc) - couple key takeaways I had (on a quick read) were:
1. Dyshawn Hobson is only a student manager and an hourly employee, not a formal grad assistant. What he did with TJ and Harmon was not in any "official capacity" for DIA/UI nor did he put in an expense report or ask to reimbursed for the trip.
2. "The Panel is not an investigative or fact-finding body. It is not asked to determine, or even opine on, whether the alleged misconduct did, in fact, occur". I think some people are saying how could the panel look at the evidence and not reinstate him... that is not their role as designed
3. "I have reviewed DIA records, which demonstrate that it is not a foregone conclusion that the Panel will uphold the suspension following an interim action. Since first introducing the Policy for the 2017-18 academic year, on nine different occasions DIA has initiated the interim action process based on allegations of a Major Offense. In two instances, including at least one involving allegations of sexual misconduct, the Panel has decided to reinstate the involved student athlete."
RichardKeenesCousin
Richard Keene's Cousin
because he posted about it on an internet message board and that makes it official. /s
Krombopulos_Michael
- Aurora, Illinois (that’s a suburb of Chicago)
Dyshawn is a GA.
Hello,
But doesn’t this mean Terrance is out until March?
no. this is the hearing that would happen in 10ish days if the judge grants it. this would be the big one, the permanent one where he would likely be with the team the rest of the year. Both sides would have evidence to present and then go from there
I’m not attacking you, Chad…but:
1. Did ol’ Gair publicly shame Nate Oats and Alabama when Brandon Miller played all season after being arrested? It is comparable in a several ways. If he did…I’ll give him credit for at least being consistent
2. I’m not sure it’s in G. Parrish’s power to shame Brad Underwood.
1. Did ol’ Gair publicly shame Nate Oats and Alabama when Brandon Miller played all season after being arrested? It is comparable in a several ways. If he did…I’ll give him credit for at least being consistent
2. I’m not sure it’s in G. Parrish’s power to shame Brad Underwood.
Parrish is an especially outstanding clown amongst a group full of outstanding clowns.
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It's hard to take people seriously when they speak in absolutes about the unknowable.
Also, the hearing is today. Though these things are inherently urgent, there is no commitment to a decision today.
II. The Court Should Deny Plaintiff’s Motion for a Preliminary Injunction in its Entirety.
Certainly doesn't read like a university trying to cut a deal with the player.
Certainly doesn't read like a university trying to cut a deal with the player.
Five second google search:
"
Gary Parrish Says Alabama's Brandon Miller Shouldn't Be Playing"
By the way, I'm glad you brought this up, because this is a great example of the type of media firestorm the University will be inviting if it allows Terrence to play.
I suspect we have a of trolls on here from other schools that trying to stir the pot.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
Just check out any recruiting thread or social media half-truth. Heck, just wade through the daily threads on this topic. The fandom plays heavily. People are attacked for any non-glowingly positive comment.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
Anyone who thought the university was going to lay down, in court, for a suit targeting a university policy has never worked in higher education and has willfully ignored many national news articles over the past 30 years.
Gonna be honest guys, shaming by the media is not what we need to worry about if Shannon plays with a felony rape trial looming. This is an extremely dangerous situation for the university and frankly college athletics. If players are able to TRO on their own university for sitting them while actually have charges of felonies, precedents are being set. Let alone if he is found guilty. Underwood could be a victim of all this. I am extremely nervous for the outcome of this and I have not seen anywhere actual evidence that TSJ is not guilty. Caution, caution, caution....He is also my favorite player on the team and I want him to be innocent and have a long NBA career, as a program that is the best outcome. The risk of playing a person that is ultimately found guilty of any level of sexual assault just to get some wins is too much for me.
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I'm a civil litigator with experience with TRO's but no experience with the nuances of education law/Title IX/etc. If I had to wager, I would say the TRO will be denied.
I think the University makes a compelling argument that TSJ's conduct was not a university activity. This is important because, if correct, Title IX will not apply to TSJ. TSJ argues it was a university activity because Hobson, a grad assistant who is also his roommate, accompanied him and Harmon to Lawrence, and further, Hobson was directed by Illini staff to accompany TSJ and Harmon. In response, U of I says Hobson is a student-manager who has no supervisory role over TSJ, and a coach only asked Harmon to drive TSJ and Harmon because of the long drive, quick turnaround, and the fact TSJ had been involved a motor vehicle accident before where he fell asleep while driving. U of I says it provided no expectations or instructions for what TSJ, Hobson, or anyone else was to do while in Lawrence. The U of I supports this with an affidavit from Geoff Alexander.
Without Title IX protections, it seems the dispute really boils down to whether U of I followed its DIA policy and afforded TSJ due process. On the DIA policy, U of I argues that, under the policy, receipt of "credible information (such as an arrest warrant) of a potential 'Major Offense' authorizes Whitman, as Director of Athletics, to take interim action to withhold a student-athlete from athletic activities pending review by a Student-Athlete Conduct Panel ("Panel")." U of I goes on to argue that the "Panel is not an investigative body and is not asked to determine whether the alleged misconduct occurred; rather, it considers information available to it at the time it convenes to determine whether that information justifies withholding the student-athlete from some or all athletic activities pending final resolution of the charges at issue." The U of I says the criminal charge was "credible information of a Major Offense resulting in DIA taking interim action pursuant to the DIA Policy."
As for the process, U of I argues that it gave TSJ appropriate process because it notified him and gave him an opportunity to be heard, TSJ and his attorneys requested and was granted a delay in the Panel's review, and TSJ and his attorneys submitted to the Panel a letter and ~50 pages of exhibits, which the Panel considered.
Ultimately, it seems the U of I is saying that the criminal charges triggered the interim suspension and the DIA Panel is not really there to determine the merit of those charges. The U of I says: "The DIA Policy reflects that an arrest and criminal felony charge do not occur without serious evidence (including probable cause attestation and judicial issuance of a warrant), and for this reason, credible information of a major offense like an arrest and criminal charge must be taken seriously and may require interim action that continues while the charges are pending. Even in such serious cases, the student-athlete is given an opportunity to be heard and to present evidence, if any exists, that an interim suspension is inappropriate, and the Panel will weigh that information in making its determination."
I hope I'm wrong.
Also, there had been discussion in prior threads about the time of the incident and when TSJ left Lawrence. The U of I's response confirms TSJ had to be back in Champaign by 8:00 a.m. for an NIL event the day after the football game. Hobson's affidavit seemed to state that they arrived back in Champaign at 4:30 a.m., though it was unclear whether Hobson was saying they left Lawrence at 4:30 a.m. or arrived back in Champaign at 4:30 a.m. Not sure how that affects anything if TSJ was observed on the bar's surveillance cameras at around the time the incident alleged occurred, but, on its face, the times certainly do not appear to add up.
I think the University makes a compelling argument that TSJ's conduct was not a university activity. This is important because, if correct, Title IX will not apply to TSJ. TSJ argues it was a university activity because Hobson, a grad assistant who is also his roommate, accompanied him and Harmon to Lawrence, and further, Hobson was directed by Illini staff to accompany TSJ and Harmon. In response, U of I says Hobson is a student-manager who has no supervisory role over TSJ, and a coach only asked Harmon to drive TSJ and Harmon because of the long drive, quick turnaround, and the fact TSJ had been involved a motor vehicle accident before where he fell asleep while driving. U of I says it provided no expectations or instructions for what TSJ, Hobson, or anyone else was to do while in Lawrence. The U of I supports this with an affidavit from Geoff Alexander.
Without Title IX protections, it seems the dispute really boils down to whether U of I followed its DIA policy and afforded TSJ due process. On the DIA policy, U of I argues that, under the policy, receipt of "credible information (such as an arrest warrant) of a potential 'Major Offense' authorizes Whitman, as Director of Athletics, to take interim action to withhold a student-athlete from athletic activities pending review by a Student-Athlete Conduct Panel ("Panel")." U of I goes on to argue that the "Panel is not an investigative body and is not asked to determine whether the alleged misconduct occurred; rather, it considers information available to it at the time it convenes to determine whether that information justifies withholding the student-athlete from some or all athletic activities pending final resolution of the charges at issue." The U of I says the criminal charge was "credible information of a Major Offense resulting in DIA taking interim action pursuant to the DIA Policy."
As for the process, U of I argues that it gave TSJ appropriate process because it notified him and gave him an opportunity to be heard, TSJ and his attorneys requested and was granted a delay in the Panel's review, and TSJ and his attorneys submitted to the Panel a letter and ~50 pages of exhibits, which the Panel considered.
Ultimately, it seems the U of I is saying that the criminal charges triggered the interim suspension and the DIA Panel is not really there to determine the merit of those charges. The U of I says: "The DIA Policy reflects that an arrest and criminal felony charge do not occur without serious evidence (including probable cause attestation and judicial issuance of a warrant), and for this reason, credible information of a major offense like an arrest and criminal charge must be taken seriously and may require interim action that continues while the charges are pending. Even in such serious cases, the student-athlete is given an opportunity to be heard and to present evidence, if any exists, that an interim suspension is inappropriate, and the Panel will weigh that information in making its determination."
I hope I'm wrong.
Also, there had been discussion in prior threads about the time of the incident and when TSJ left Lawrence. The U of I's response confirms TSJ had to be back in Champaign by 8:00 a.m. for an NIL event the day after the football game. Hobson's affidavit seemed to state that they arrived back in Champaign at 4:30 a.m., though it was unclear whether Hobson was saying they left Lawrence at 4:30 a.m. or arrived back in Champaign at 4:30 a.m. Not sure how that affects anything if TSJ was observed on the bar's surveillance cameras at around the time the incident alleged occurred, but, on its face, the times certainly do not appear to add up.
Have you seen any actual evidence that he is guilty though? Genuinely asking
Hate to disagree with JW who is smarter than I am bit # 2 is simply not accurate. Their finding was there is credible evidence of a serious crime. Not opine on? No they did not give an opinion they gave a finding. A finding that is necessary to suspend him. If # 2 is truly how they operate that is nothing more than a rubber stamp which is not due process in any world I operate in
He actually did repeatedly say last year that even if Brandon Miller didn't actually break any laws according to the police, it was still crazy that there were no repercussions on the team. He said that if your team rules don't forbid taking a gun to someone that then uses it to murder someone else, then you should rethink your team rules.
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