ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
That's a kind way of saying the conference is a big pile of mediocrity this year.
Also it does have a bottom, and Juwan Howard is leading it.
Illini Basketball 2023-2024
- Status
Also it does have a bottom, and Juwan Howard is leading it.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Friendly reminder of the Big Ten standings as we head into Wednesday's games!
Purdue: 12-3
ILLINOIS: 10-4
Wisconsin: 10-6
Northwestern: 9-6
Michigan State: 9-7
Nebraska: 8-7
Iowa: 8-8
Minnesota: 7-7
Indiana: 6-8
Rutgers: 6-8
Penn State: 6-9
Maryland: 6-10
Ohio State: 5-10
Michigan: 3-12
Illini obviously play at Penn State tonight and host a surging Iowa team Saturday. Purdue hosts Rutgers on Thursday and travels to Ann Arbor on Sunday. Also, I started to think about how nice it would be to win our second Big Ten title in just three seasons (and it really should be third in four seasons, let's be real!), it struck me how even the top of the league has honestly been in the last 5 seasons ... people have this perception that Purdue has been top dog for a while because of Edey and reaching a #1 ranking a few times, but that really hasn't been the case as far as hanging the banners, other than last year...
2019-20
Champion: #9 Michigan State, #12 Maryland and #17 Wisconsin. #21 Illinois in second by one game.
BTT Champion: N/A (BTT cancelled due to COVID-19)
2020-21
Champion: #4 Michigan*** at 14-3. #2 Illinois in "second" at 16-4.
BTT Champion: #2 Illinois. #9 Ohio State as finalist.
2021-22
Champion: #19 Illinois and #14 Wisconsin. #10 Purdue in second by one game.
BTT Champion: #24 Iowa. #9 Purdue as finalist.
2022-23
Champion: #3 Purdue. Big drop-off to three teams in second.
BTT Champion: #3 Purdue. Penn State as finalist.
2023-24
Champion: TBD ... #3 Purdue at 3 losses, #12 Illinois at 4 losses.
BTT Champion: TBD ... top four teams currently are #3 Purdue, #12 Illinois, Wisconsin and Northwestern.
There is as much orange up there as gold, folks! So to summarize in the past four seasons before this:
Big Ten Champions
Wisconsin: 2
Illinois: 1 (2 if 2021 were handled correctly, but I digress...)
Purdue: 1
Michigan: 1
Maryland: 1
Michigan State: 1
BTT Champions
Illinois: 1
Purdue: 1
Iowa: 1
HALF of the Big Ten (i.e., 7 teams) have hung a banner of some kind in four seasons ... that's a remarkably even league.
Purdue: 12-3
ILLINOIS: 10-4
Wisconsin: 10-6
Northwestern: 9-6
Michigan State: 9-7
Nebraska: 8-7
Iowa: 8-8
Minnesota: 7-7
Indiana: 6-8
Rutgers: 6-8
Penn State: 6-9
Maryland: 6-10
Ohio State: 5-10
Michigan: 3-12
Illini obviously play at Penn State tonight and host a surging Iowa team Saturday. Purdue hosts Rutgers on Thursday and travels to Ann Arbor on Sunday. Also, I started to think about how nice it would be to win our second Big Ten title in just three seasons (and it really should be third in four seasons, let's be real!), it struck me how even the top of the league has honestly been in the last 5 seasons ... people have this perception that Purdue has been top dog for a while because of Edey and reaching a #1 ranking a few times, but that really hasn't been the case as far as hanging the banners, other than last year...
2019-20
Champion: #9 Michigan State, #12 Maryland and #17 Wisconsin. #21 Illinois in second by one game.
BTT Champion: N/A (BTT cancelled due to COVID-19)
2020-21
Champion: #4 Michigan*** at 14-3. #2 Illinois in "second" at 16-4.
BTT Champion: #2 Illinois. #9 Ohio State as finalist.
2021-22
Champion: #19 Illinois and #14 Wisconsin. #10 Purdue in second by one game.
BTT Champion: #24 Iowa. #9 Purdue as finalist.
2022-23
Champion: #3 Purdue. Big drop-off to three teams in second.
BTT Champion: #3 Purdue. Penn State as finalist.
2023-24
Champion: TBD ... #3 Purdue at 3 losses, #12 Illinois at 4 losses.
BTT Champion: TBD ... top four teams currently are #3 Purdue, #12 Illinois, Wisconsin and Northwestern.
There is as much orange up there as gold, folks! So to summarize in the past four seasons before this:
Big Ten Champions
Wisconsin: 2
Illinois: 1 (2 if 2021 were handled correctly, but I digress...)
Purdue: 1
Michigan: 1
Maryland: 1
Michigan State: 1
BTT Champions
Illinois: 1
Purdue: 1
Iowa: 1
HALF of the Big Ten (i.e., 7 teams) have hung a banner of some kind in four seasons ... that's a remarkably even league.
My feeling is I'd rather win the season championship. I really don't care about the BTT. I feel like in College basketball today, its very difficult to win 9 games in a row. So, get the loss out of the way in the BTT and win your final 6 games. Still hard to do.
uofi7477
- Silver & Gold Vandals
Agreed. Most people outside and even many inside the Rust Belt could care less about the B1G Championship. It is all about the National Tourney. And this forms the perception of HC Underwood to a great extent too.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Illini/Maryland drew 1.0 million viewers on Saturday, which was second most in the Big Ten after Michigan/MSU (also on FOX) drew 1.3 million. Considering Maryland is averaging under 300k viewers per game and drew 873k the last time they played on FOX vs. Michigan State, that speaks to a nice turnout by Illini fans, IMO. Updated average ratings per team:
Michigan State: 772k
Purdue: 723k
ILLINOIS: 553k
Indiana: 454k
Wisconsin: 427k
Ohio State: 404k
Michigan: 395k
Iowa: 326k
Maryland: 298k
Nebraska: 285k
Rutgers: 249k
Minnesota: 217k
Northwestern: 196k
Penn State: 176k
Illinois average by channel to give some context:
FOX or CBS: 1.19 million
ESPN: 768k (one game)
BTN or FS1: 367k
So yeah, it's nice to play on the big channels! For example, if you remove MSU's massive 5.2 million rating vs. Arizona on FOX in November, their average drops to 525k.
Michigan State: 772k
Purdue: 723k
ILLINOIS: 553k
Indiana: 454k
Wisconsin: 427k
Ohio State: 404k
Michigan: 395k
Iowa: 326k
Maryland: 298k
Nebraska: 285k
Rutgers: 249k
Minnesota: 217k
Northwestern: 196k
Penn State: 176k
Illinois average by channel to give some context:
FOX or CBS: 1.19 million
ESPN: 768k (one game)
BTN or FS1: 367k
So yeah, it's nice to play on the big channels! For example, if you remove MSU's massive 5.2 million rating vs. Arizona on FOX in November, their average drops to 525k.
As others have said, I don't buy this either. You're basically talking 2 teams having only 4 days rest instead of 5 days and 2 more having 5 days rest instead of 6. This would be similar to saying that losing early in your conference tournament leads to improved chance of winning the national championship. Let's see how the historical data compares:
23: UCONN lost in BET Semis
22: Kansas won B12T
21: Baylor lost in B12T Semis
19: UVa lost in ACCT Semis
18: Nova won BET
17: UNC lost ACCT Quarters
16: Nova lost BET Finals
15: Duke lost ACCT Semis
14: UCONN lost AACT Finals
13: LVille won BET
12: Kentucky lost SECT Finals
11: UCONN won BET
10: Duke won ACCT
09: UNC lost ACCT Quarters
08: Kansas won B12T
07: Florida won SECT
06: Florida won SECT
05: UNC lost ACCT Quarters
04: UCONN won BET
03: Cuse lost BET Quarters
So in the past 20 years, you've has this background of title winners:
12 played in Finals
4 lost in Semis
4 lost in Quarters
It definitely appears that losing prior to the conference tournament finals does not make you appreciably more likely to win a natty. When 60% of national champions also played in their conference finals it seems that the best teams more often than not just win.
I think there's a possible better argument that playing so many consecutive games in a conference where there is such a high amount of physical contact allowed would do more to wear teams down compared to other conferences than the extra day of rest.
Teams playing well at the end of the season tend to play well in the tournaments. I tend to think the degree to which the B1G refs allow contact is what works against the league, but not necessarily because players get worn down.
Good players do what they are used to doing and suddenly get called for fouls & watch long stretches of tournament games from the bench.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
And just to pile on this further, here are the national runners-up during that time period. Teams that at least made the their conference tournament finals are in green.
2023: San Diego State - MWCT champions
2022: North Carolina - Lost in ACCT semifinals
2021: Gonzaga - WCTT champions
2020: N/A (COVID-19 cancels NCAA Tournament)
2019: Texas Tech - Lost in BXIIT quarterfinals
2018: Michigan - BTT champions
2017: Gonzaga - WCCT champions
2016: North Carolina - ACCT champions
2015: Wisconsin - BTT champions
2014: Kentucky - SECT finalists
2013: Michigan - Lost in BTT quarterfinals
2012: Kansas - Lost in BXIIT semifinals
2011: Butler - Horizon League Tournament champions
2010: Butler - Horizon League Tournament champions
2009: Michigan State - Lost in BTT semifinals
2008: Memphis - CUSAT champions
2007: Ohio State - BTT champions
2006: UCLA - P12T champions
2005: Illinois - BTT champions
2004: Georgia Tech - Lost in ACCT semifinals
2003: Kansas - Lost in BXIIT semifinals
So of the 20 teams to make the Championship Game above, 12 won their conference tournament and 13 at least made the final. 18 at least made their conference tournament semifinals, meaning only TWO out of the 20 teams lost earlier than that.
Personally, I think we are REALLY biased toward our 2021 team having to end the season like this:
--- Ayo is still sidelined from being hurt at Michigan State. ---
Saturday 2/27 - W 74-69 at #23 Wisconsin without Ayo.
--- Two days rest ---
Tuesday 3/2 - W 76-53 at #2 Michigan without Ayo.
Sunday 3/6 - W 73-68 at #7 Ohio State in Ayo's first game back wearing the mask.
--- Kevin Warren announces Michigan will not have to play all of their games, AND Illinois will still not be crowned as a co-champion. ---
--- Head to Indianapolis to quarantine in a hotel ---
Friday 3/12 - W 90-68 vs. Rutgers in BTT Quarterfinals.
Saturday 3/13 - W 82-71 vs. #5 Iowa in BTT Semifinals.
Sunday 3/14 - W 91-88 in OT vs. #9 Ohio State in BTT Championship Game.
--- Resume quarantine in Indianapolis ---
Friday 3/19 - W 78-49 vs. Drexel in NCAAT First Round.
Sunday 3/21 - L 71-58 vs. #17 Loyola in NCAAT Second Round.
I know it is excuse making, but hear me out here. In the last two weeks of the regular season and BTT with our star player out for some of that and dealing with general COVID-related complications, we...
- Played 6 games in 8 days - NONE of which were in Champaign.
- In those 6 games, we went 5-0 vs. ranked teams and 4-0 vs. top 10 teams.
- Lost to #17 Loyola. So, we went 6-1 in games vs. the top 25 away from home, and the one came at the worst time, lol.
I DO think our 2021 team was gassed, and who knows? Maybe one extra day of rest allows us to be fresh enough to survive the Loyola scare and go on a run. However, that was an incredibly unusual Tournament ... and in general, getting to play and win more games ONLY helps a team!
I know at one time officials were thought to call less fouls in the BIG. Doesn’t seem true to me recently. In fact I think less are called. ISU vs Houston made our game against Maryland seem like no touching allowed. There were 39 fouls called there vs 47 called in our Maryland game. Something that could be actually verified but it doesn’t meet my eye test.
Two words: Courtney Green
Good grief thanks for all the info. To me its just simply do you think you would play better with more rest or not. We always seem to do better with 5+ days rest vs 2 or 3.
This seems logical but I wonder if it's true. Perhaps Fighter could research it on his next slow day at work.
I think an extra day of rest is quite significant, especially after playing 3 or 4 consecutive days. That is something that does not happen in the regular season.This seems logical but I wonder if it's true. Perhaps Fighter could research it on his next slow day at work.
It's also an extra day of pre-tournament practice, if the coach decides to do so. Or scout study in the video room. Or a hundred other things the coaches may do as part of their preparation.
But this is just my opinion, I know the B1G is not relinquishing that premier spot before the Selection Show.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
That last game in the BTT is a cash cow bigtime.......I doubt they will give it up and move the BTT schedule up because of it being such a cash cow.............
It's all about the Benjamins $$$$$$$$$$...............................
You would think they would be just as concerned about their reputation. Being labeled as the P5 conference that can't deliver the big one is like having an anchor hung around your neck. If you want to be considered the best conference in basketball it seems to me that you wouldn't just keep doing the same thing for 20+ years if you haven't won it all even once in that time. Sometimes you need to change things up and break the pattern just for the sake of it. You only keep doing things the same way if it has proven to be successful and to me not winning a national championship in all that time is not a success.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
1/2 - W vs. Northwestern. Great effort!!
1/5 - L at Purdue. Good effort.
1/11 - W vs. Michigan State. A bit of a letdown, never should have been this close. But a win is a win!
1/14 - L vs. Maryland. Crap effort, meltdown.
1/18 - W at Michigan. “Pissed off” about Maryland loss, so this is our get right game.
1/21 - W vs. Rutgers. Great effort.
1/24 - L at Northwestern. Another regression to an infuriating, mistake-filled loss.
1/27 - W vs. Indiana. Pretty uninspiring but a win, so technically bounced back!
1/30 - W at Ohio State. Great effort!
2/4 - W vs. Nebraska. Alarming effort, but we won…
2/10 - L at Michigan State. Meltdown late costs us.
2/13 - W vs. Michigan. Our bounce back game!! Great effort!
2/17 - W at Maryland. Some concerning things but a Big Ten road win.
2/21 - L at Penn State. Historic meltdown.
W - L (at #1) - W - L
W - W - L
W - W - W - L
W - W - L
I’ve been so delusionally and desperately trying to not see it … but this team probably won’t ever “turn a corner.” Let’s just hope our NCAAT games have a W-W-L sequence and we can finally make a Sweet Sixteen.
1/5 - L at Purdue. Good effort.
1/11 - W vs. Michigan State. A bit of a letdown, never should have been this close. But a win is a win!
1/14 - L vs. Maryland. Crap effort, meltdown.
1/18 - W at Michigan. “Pissed off” about Maryland loss, so this is our get right game.
1/21 - W vs. Rutgers. Great effort.
1/24 - L at Northwestern. Another regression to an infuriating, mistake-filled loss.
1/27 - W vs. Indiana. Pretty uninspiring but a win, so technically bounced back!
1/30 - W at Ohio State. Great effort!
2/4 - W vs. Nebraska. Alarming effort, but we won…
2/10 - L at Michigan State. Meltdown late costs us.
2/13 - W vs. Michigan. Our bounce back game!! Great effort!
2/17 - W at Maryland. Some concerning things but a Big Ten road win.
2/21 - L at Penn State. Historic meltdown.
W - L (at #1) - W - L
W - W - L
W - W - W - L
W - W - L
I’ve been so delusionally and desperately trying to not see it … but this team probably won’t ever “turn a corner.”
Let’s just hope our NCAAT games have a W-W-L sequence and we can finally make a Sweet Sixteen.
What seed will 21-11 get us?
IlliniMike_Aurora
Straight outta Champaign
One we deserve
12-8 final big ten record should be good enough for a double bye. Then hope they can out score everyone in Minneapolis
6 or 7. Zero chance that is our record though, even with the defensive s*** show
It seems quite possible that we could finish regular season 2-3 and lose in first round of BTT, no?
I'd almost rather have a 6 seed than 4-5.
I think we do better than that. Beat Iowa and we all will be feeling a lot better
Yeah I don't see us falling down that far unless we have a complete collapse. There are just too many teams behind us that are losing every week. Being a 4-5 seed is not the end of the world. You just gotta being playing your best in the tournament no matter what seed you are.
On the bright side, thought both the freshman showed some flashes last night. Really high on their long term upside.
Coleman needs to look himself in the mirror after this game. He is a senior and that cannot happen again. He has been awesome this year, but to make that many mistakes down the stretch cannot happen for someone as good as he is. Stop worrying about the refs and just play basketball
Coleman needs to look himself in the mirror after this game. He is a senior and that cannot happen again. He has been awesome this year, but to make that many mistakes down the stretch cannot happen for someone as good as he is. Stop worrying about the refs and just play basketball
The freshman did look good. Would have preferred them instead of Goode in at the end of the game.
- Status