Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
What I have heard, always better to part ways a year too early vs. a year too late. Not that I want Brad gone. I just don't want him to be pushed to letting Tyler go, then be pissed all next year about then leave.
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
- Status
sacraig
- The desert
I think the middle ground is helping Tyler secure an assistant position elsewhere. That would be better for him anyway since it would let him spread his wings a bit, develop his own ideas, and step out of his dad's shadow. If he stays with Brad long term, there will always be questions about how independent he is and it will more likely than not hurt his long-term coaching prospects.
sacraig
- The desert
Adjusted for cost of living?
wonder how much they asked donors for humrichous tre boswell booth etc. They asked for a lot for will but he started to finally play well. the ROI for this transfer class is a fat 0. If I had to guess donors are gonna start putting the $$$ in football.
I don't disagree that this may be the best case scenario, but as far as negotiation goes that doesn't seem like a middle ground but more of a maximalist position.
Just imagining this discussion:
JW: Brad, you need to replace three assistants, including your son.
BU: No way Josh, it's my staff and I get to decide who my ACs are!
JW: OK look. This season was a disaster. Changes need to be made. Here's a compromise: We fire and replace Hamer and Kwa. Tyler goes to work elsewhere and we replace him too.
BU: How is that any different than what you said when you first walked in here?
JW: Uh....
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OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
The list of programs that would be very excited to hire Brad Underwood is a LOT longer than that of the schools who would not be happy to hire him.
I'd like to think that Brad recognizes that there are some changes needed on his staff. This will be a test of his pride and ego. Honestly, if Whitman encourages him to change his staff and Underwood leaves because of that, I will accept that and move on. I genuinely believe Illinois is so, so much better positioned now than when Weber left (forget about when Groce left). It's a program that has shown it absolutely can be in the national championship discussion, and Josh Whitman is very well-regarded. This is not like when no one wanted to work for Mike Thomas - we will get a coach that feels like Illinois is a place where he can scale the highest of heights.
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Pitino is in his 70s, is a New York guy, and gets to play most of his home games in the same arena where he had success as a NBA coach.
The only three ways he leaves St. John's is retiring, being terminated for some sort of scandal, or feet first. I feel confident as an avowed non-insider to say that this is his last coaching job.
The only way I see Brad going anywhere after this season is if there is an ultimatum for Tyler to go or be demoted and he declines. I'd love for Brad to stick around, as long as it's with new assistants. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but even with his shortcomings, Brad is a very good coach.
Agreed. I'm glad Brad coached us to our first Elite 8 in a long time, and his conference record has been fantastic. The ride has been great, but it's clear that this coaching staff is broken in its current form. If Brad won't part ways with Hamer and his son, you pull the ripcord and find a new head coach. Otherwise things will only get worse next season.
sacraig
- The desert
In terms of on-court performance, I don't honestly know how much of the blame is Tyler's. Or Hamer's. Maybe removing Tyler solves nothing.
What info know is that nepotism is not a good look (at best) and causes an organization to continue to employ a d/or protect underperforming staff (at worst) since it's hard to fire or demote your own kin.
Ultimately, the buck stops with the head coach. The injuries/I'll ess didn't help, but we are healthy(ish) right now and the product still equals less than the sum of its parts, and that's on the coach.
Are TN and Bama better than UI? I wouldn't think so.
I agree with all of this, and think JW should have stopped it from happening in the first place. Now that Tyler is there I think there needs to be a graceful exit from that situation. Harder to play the "nepotism is wrong" card after you ok the hiring in the first place.
My point is that it may be a harder situation to extract the program from than one offseason can provide, in which case a potential extended offramp might make sense given that according to insiders its not just a Tyler thing but there are 3 ACs that should ideally be replaced. That is of course if JW still believes BU is our best option
If JW wants to replace BU or feels just as good about a potential replacement, then sure, make an ultimatum, and if he leaves, he leaves.
Yeah...but we would be blowing a gasket if BU had those records regardless of injuries or whatever. I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but seems like Sean's best years were when other programs weren't paying players...actually should probably say other programs weren't as good at it.
Couldn’t agree more …
Should’ve done this from the beginning … Or he should have remained in his Director of recruiting & scouting role … I was fine with that …
Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
I dislike nepotism as much as anyone, but I wonder if there was more to it. From what I see here we are paying some of the top assistants salaries in the country, especially Orlando. I can see Tyler et. al. being lower cost options fitting in with our overall assistant budget (when Josh originally agreed).
This … All of this …
I don’t want Brad to leave … I don’t want Brad fired …
But running it back with Tyler, Hamer and Kwa as assistants is flat out unacceptable …
Kwa was always temporary … He can go back to a non-assistant role … But he cannot remain an assistant …
I get he won’t fire Tyler … That’s fine … He can take the demotion, he can find another AC job or he can be our 5th assistant in a LEARNING capacity … No more Offensive Coordinator …
As far as Hamer is concerned … He should’ve never been an assistant … Our defense has been absolutely atrocious in conference and down the stretch the last 2 years … I’ve seen enough … No demotion … He should be fired … Nothing personal …. Just evaluating based on performance …
Will wade a possibility for us? Dude can coach and build culture
Here is roughly what our assistants are getting paid …
The staff budget for the assistants is right near $2.5 million not including Fletch, Paul, Bittle, Joey, Ganta, Courtney, and Nicole … There’s some other incentives and stuff that bring to that total but the below figures come out to be right at $2.4 million …
Orlando - $900,000
TA - $660,000
Geoff - $450,000
Hamer - $210,000
Tyler - $125,000
Kwa - $65,000
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sacraig
- The desert
One spreadsheet coach is enough per staff. Need people who can teach the game and teach an offense/defense.
sacraig
- The desert
Okay, temporary or not, Kwa is criminally underpaid. If his responsibilities went up, he needs to be compensated.
Big Jack
- Decatur
I would not lose any sleep at this point no matter who comes calling. I am just fine with starting over and anyone who doesn't believe Sean would be a winner here is coo coo
This is why I could definitely see a world in which we keep Tyler as a 5th AC and consolidate the TA/Hamer money to hire two quality assistants (or one elite assistant and an up-and-comer type). Tyler is pretty cheap as far as ACs go. Gentry was making $315k when he was here and he (or presumably someone like him) would make more than that at this point ($400k+?). Can't hire 3 guys of that caliber without increasing the salary pool and with the House settlement money coming into play that may be a heavy lift.
Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
Thanks Indy. Please correct me if wrong, all my info and (faulty maybe?) recollections are from here. This is my thinking:
Orlando is at or near the top nationally. Might be one or two elsewhere making $1M.
TA is leaving because he wanted OA level money and we said no, with maybe a bit of ‘my guys got recruited over’.
Chet left for some combination of guys recruited over, money, and Hamer getting the DC role, as the latter would be a step toward his goal of being a HC somewhere.
The NCAA a couple years ago granted five full AC positions, when we had already spent our AC budget on the three existing coaches. We had very little left and Tyler, Hamer, and Kwa inexpensively filled the spots. and made Brad happy, at least in Tyler’s case.
Edit to add I wrote this before your edit explaining the total. Thanks again.
Orlando is at or near the top nationally. Might be one or two elsewhere making $1M.
TA is leaving because he wanted OA level money and we said no, with maybe a bit of ‘my guys got recruited over’.
Chet left for some combination of guys recruited over, money, and Hamer getting the DC role, as the latter would be a step toward his goal of being a HC somewhere.
The NCAA a couple years ago granted five full AC positions, when we had already spent our AC budget on the three existing coaches. We had very little left and Tyler, Hamer, and Kwa inexpensively filled the spots. and made Brad happy, at least in Tyler’s case.
Edit to add I wrote this before your edit explaining the total. Thanks again.
Big Jack
- Decatur
I can assure you there are several Texas colleges that would love to have him, I have several buddies down there that are always asking about him.. He made a good name for himself at SFA before leaving. As I have made clear I am fine with him moving on and would still love to have him here but Tyler and Zach have to go, period end of story.
- Status