Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#701      
DeonThomas
sacraig said:
How do you achieve an aspiration if you don't set expectations accordingly?
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At Illinois today:
-- Expectations are set appropriately
-- Talent acquisition and recruiting are both on the rise, at perhaps an all-time program high
-- Enthusiastic fandem and crowd support are very, very high (altho probably not at an all-time high)
-- Game preparation and in-game coaching = sub-par and the reason for our (relative) demise
 
#702      
FrankNitty30
Ok, I can come here and eat crow. The numbers I was going off of were up to 2022.

With updated numbers, it helps the “expectation” crowd, but it is still an absurd bar to hold people to.

Teams that have made it half the time.

Arizona, UCLA, UNC and Gonzaga would be added to this.

8 teams.
 
#703      
Second place is 1st loser
With all due respect, how did a full decade before we got Brad go? We were a brutal program and brutal is being kind.

A celebration was being in the tournament at all. Excitement was being in the bubble. Let's not act like he didn't take over an awful program that absolutely nobody, outside of our own fans, took seriously.

Our fans are known to be whiny in general, but we'd be the laughing stock of sports TV if word ever got our that our fans tried to run a guy of his stature and quality out.

Can you guarantee that if Brad left that Kofi, Ayo, TJ, etc would be walking through the door?

Just because you have money to throw around, doesn't mean you win. See Indiana.
 
#704      
pweo
FrankNitty30 said:
Ok, I can come here and eat crow. The numbers I was going off of were up to 2022.

With updated numbers, it helps the “expectation” crowd, but it is still an absurd bar to hold people to.

Teams that have made it half the time.

Arizona, UCLA, UNC and Gonzaga would be added to this.

8 teams.
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Can you do teams that have made it more than once in the last 19 years? Is that an absurd bar as well?
 
#705      
Second place is 1st loser
pruman91 said:
the snarkyness in this thread is disheartening to say the least and I won't participate at all in the discussion , but can't we just agree to disagree and respect each others opinion without a " print it out and cram it " type reference .........we are all ( I hope ) Fighting Illini fans first and foremost and should be looking to the Selection Sunday show to find out our path in the NCAA Tourney.......

BTW , has anyone got ANY proof or whatnot that JW or BU are even considering a change in the Illini coach for next year or even any year in the foreseeable future ?????.................this thread has devolved into a clusterf**k of gripes , delusional thoughts and certain coaches being put on pedestals with enough baggage to stagger the minds of reasonable thinking fans...............

I need to avoid these types of threads that take on the attitude of a game thread..............they only grind down into a sludge pond...........

they really really do.................just a little modicum of respect would be appreciated by all sides........JMHO........
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A voice of common sense, reality and reason. Thank you.
 
#707      
Point-Illinois
This was the post you were responding to:
the juiceman cometh said:
What about LSU? Wade's five seasons at LSU vs Brad's last 5 here, which is better?
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Indy Illini Fan said:
I literally used the same 5 year stretch …
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Since you responded to that post, it would be reasonable to keep the timeframes asked for by the OP. Maybe you misread or maybe it was purposeful, either way, the timeframe they asked for paints a different picture.
Indy Illini Fan said:
Use whatever years you want … There’s no bias and cherry picking about the fact Wade has had ZERO losing seasons at the high major level …
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I really don't think having zero losing seasons has to be such a big deal. A quick search lets me know these active and retired coaches have also had losing seasons at the high major level: Matt Painter, Kelvin Sampson, Sean Miller, Bruce Pearl, Roy Williams, Mike Krzyzewski
Indy Illini Fan said:
I’m not even sure what you’re debating at this point …
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I'm not debating anything. My initial post was the first one in this thread. This is the 2nd. All I'm stating is that Illinois Loyalty is a great community. And we are all Illinois fans (except the trolls), and I think we should all do our best to provide genuine discourse.

I think most posters can excuse BU's first 2 years as part of the rebuild and his third year as what could have been a missed opportunity (considering our momentum and bottom-of-the-bracket projected seed). So every time you say "1 S16 in 8 years" when one year isn't complete (current), one was canceled, and 2 required a rebuild, it feels disingenuous.

Most of us can agree, though, that BU doesn't have it all right (Loyola...wtf, 2023, puzzling staff issues) so there is no need for agenda hunting.
 
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#708      
Second place is 1st loser
You're beating your head against a wall for no reason. I was doing the same thing. Brad will be here as long as he wants to be here. It would have to take a MONUMENTAL failure (two losing seasons in a row and missing the tournament type disaster) for his seat to be hot.

Two days ago, people were talking about a top 6 seed and these same people are calling the season a failure.

Ignore it.
 
#710      
DeonThomas
NarrowJ said:
Shaq? Shaq never played in a final four 🤣🤣🤣🤣

LSU final fours 1981, 1986, 2006

They're a good program, you acting like they're a bottom feeder is just more ridiculous axe grinding. I'm sorry but the 1 in 8 stuff and now this?

Idk man... having trouble following anything you're saying today
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ESPN/SAGARIN "All-Time" NCAA Basketball Rankings (2006):

We know what you’re thinking: How did UCLA not come out on top, given John Wooden's magnificent run as the greatest
college coach of all-time? Well, as dominant as the Bruins were under John Wooden, they didn’t even rank as a top-40
program in the 1940s. Meanwhile, Kentucky hasn’t finished lower than 10th in any decade. We’re guessing you’re nearly
as shocked by Northwestern’s No. 77 ranking. But with eight Big Ten programs in the Top 20, the Wildcats have
faced some of college basketball’s toughest conference slates for more than seven decades. Just goes to show how much
strength of schedule matters. ABOUT THESE RANKINGS: Only active Division I programs are listed in the all-time ranking.
Factors used by Sagarin: CHESS (named for the system of rating chess players) considers only a school’s wins and losses. PREDICTOR considers
only its scoring margin. RATING is a combination of the two. YEARS indicates the number of seasons in which the program
qualified for ranking, beginning in 1937-38 Schools that played fewer than five games against other qualified schools during a season
did not qualify for that season, nor did schools that did not field teams or were on NCAA probation. A small penalty was assessed to
a team’s rating for every season in which it failed to qualify. Obviously, programs like UConn and Michigan State, among others,
would be ranked a bit higher once results over the past 19 years are incorporated......

1 Kentucky
2 UCLA
3 Kansas
4 North Carolina
5 Indiana
6 Illinois
7 Duke
8 Purdue
9 Ohio State
10 Iowa
11 Louisville
12 Notre Dame
13 Michigan
14 Minnesota
15 Michigan State
16 St. John’s
I
I
I
62. Louisiana State
 
#711      
RabidDawgClassic
CubIllini said:
What is the story here again?
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Sampson was being interviewed for the Illinois job. Guenther liked to play things close to the vest and didn’t like anyone knowing who he was talking to. When he got to the airport, the press was there and he figured out (perhaps assumed?) that Sampson or his people let it leak. That was it… Guenther wanted nothing to do with him.
 
#712      
OrangeBlue98
We are seeing who really wants to win and who is embracing mediocrity. Some people still think Ron Guenther is AD.
 
#713      
NarrowJ
DeonThomas said:
ESPN/SAGARIN "All-Time" NCAA Basketball Rankings (2006):

We know what you’re thinking: How did UCLA not come out on top, given John Wooden's magnificent run as the greatest
college coach of all-time? Well, as dominant as the Bruins were under John Wooden, they didn’t even rank as a top-40
program in the 1940s. Meanwhile, Kentucky hasn’t finished lower than 10th in any decade. We’re guessing you’re nearly
as shocked by Northwestern’s No. 77 ranking. But with eight Big Ten programs in the Top 20, the Wildcats have
faced some of college basketball’s toughest conference slates for more than seven decades. Just goes to show how much
strength of schedule matters. ABOUT THESE RANKINGS: Only active Division I programs are listed in the all-time ranking.
Factors used by Sagarin: CHESS (named for the system of rating chess players) considers only a school’s wins and losses. PREDICTOR considers
only its scoring margin. RATING is a combination of the two. YEARS indicates the number of seasons in which the program
qualified for ranking, beginning in 1937-38 Schools that played fewer than five games against other qualified schools during a season
did not qualify for that season, nor did schools that did not field teams or were on NCAA probation. A small penalty was assessed to
a team’s rating for every season in which it failed to qualify. Obviously, programs like UConn and Michigan State, among others,
would be ranked a bit higher once results over the past 19 years are incorporated......

1 Kentucky
2 UCLA
3 Kansas
4 North Carolina
5 Indiana
6 Illinois
7 Duke
8 Purdue
9 Ohio State
10 Iowa
11 Louisville
12 Notre Dame
13 Michigan
14 Minnesota
15 Michigan State
16 St. John’s
I
I
I
62. Louisiana State
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Does not refute my position that LSU was not a 'bottom feeder program'

What is this list, anyway? You honestly think we have a better program than Duke? Minnesota is top 15?

idk what this list even measures but I have serious questions about it
 
#714      
Yes33
After living in Winetka for 10 years, I doubt his wife will want to come to Champaign.
 
#716      
Snoopy
Interesting conversation, people arguing over not risking the program trying to achieve higher highs, when over the last spring and summer, Brad basically blew up the staff and team that had achieved his greatest tournament success. And since he consistently argued that he had to recruit different players (positional size and shooting) than those he had playing for him last year to compete for national titles.
 
#717      
BlueLeader
Indy Illini Fan said:
Agreed … Brad has done a lot of great things … Elite 8 … Conf championships … He also has had 3 first team all Americans and has one second weekend to show for it … He also owns the worst season in program history and the worst loss in program history …

I don’t want Brad gone but I want to see progress towards sustained March success … Staff changes need to be made … It’s not negotiable at this point …
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Do we help find Tyler a new role that appears like a step up somewhere else ?
 
#718      
OrangeBlue98
BlueLeader said:
Do we help find Tyler a new role that appears like a step up somewhere else ?
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I’m not sure that’s needed. While I’d like to see him spread his wings somewhere else to show he can be successful away from his dad (and I believe he will be successful), the offense by and large hasn’t been an issue this year.

It’s the defense, and we know who is in charge of that.
 
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#722      
IllinitripleJ
RabidDawgClassic said:
Sampson was being interviewed for the Illinois job. Guenther liked to play things close to the vest and didn’t like anyone knowing who he was talking to. When he got to the airport, the press was there and he figured out (perhaps assumed?) that Sampson or his people let it leak. That was it… Guenther wanted nothing to do with him.
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Guenther should have swallowed his pride or whatever and signed Sampson in 2003. Sampson's last two teams at Oklahoma were loaded with talent and finished 3rd in both final AP polls for 2002 & 2003. His 2002 Oklahoma team went to the final 4 and his 2003 team lost in the Elite 8. Sampson was already a proven elite recruiter. Maybe a little shady but so what. Weber just wasn't cut-out for the recruiting wars like a Self or Sampson.
 
#723      
Mr. Tibbs
IllinitripleJ said:
Guenther should have swallowed his pride or whatever and signed Sampson in 2003. Sampson's last two teams at Oklahoma were loaded with talent and finished 3rd in both final AP polls for 2002 & 2003. His 2002 Oklahoma team went to the final 4 and his 2003 team lost in the Elite 8. Sampson was already a proven elite recruiter. Maybe a little shady but so what. Weber just wasn't cut-out for the recruiting wars like a Self or Sampson.
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hard pass on Sampson for me

I never liked his style .
We actually dodged a bullet there
and I actually forget his sins at IU
 
#724      
IllinitripleJ
Mr. Tibbs said:
hard pass on Sampson for me

I never liked his style .
We actually dodged a bullet there
and I actually forget his sins at IU
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I disagree. I love the way his teams play. They are tough and always play very hard. No way his teams get blown out like Underwood's teams do. I realize he was a little shady but so was John Wooden. Also, Gunther could have monitored the situation and kept him in line.
 
#725      
NarrowJ
IllinitripleJ said:
I disagree. I love the way his teams play. They are tough and always play very hard. No way his teams get blown out like Underwood's teams do. I realize he was a little shady but so was John Wooden. Also, Gunther could have monitored the situation and kept him in line.
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It's weird that I remember this, maybe because I was watching, but last year they got beat so bad by Iowa St in the conference tournament that they set all sorts of futility records and such
 
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