College Sports (Basketball)

[I-L-L]

I’d like the beloved to win a ‘ship before this whole farce implodes. Already seeing cracks with College Football popularity.

It's been a long time coming. Hate the state of sports in general. It leaks further down than anyone wants to admit. And it's been coming long before NIL. It's about money. Period! Money is not happiness. However old you are think about when you were very young and enjoying sports at any level. It's changed so much over time and not in a good way. Money has been the common denominator to the problem! Until the world realizes this with every facet of life it'll be lead to disappointment, letdown, and unhappiness. I'm a longtime sports fan, U of I alum, and have had so many great experiences in life/sports that I'm so fortunate to have had, but we as humans don't have it figured out.
On a more positive note, I saw where the Gator Bait cheer was allowed back at Florida. I hope that means Chief could come back at some point. May be a dream, but I'll keep pushing for it. If we give up we give in. What an honor to the Illiniwek for many years! At least it's a start!
Looking forward to a fantastic year for our Illini! ILL!

 

[March2TheArch]

It's been a long time coming. Hate the state of sports in general. It leaks further down than anyone wants to admit. And it's been coming long before NIL. It's about money. Period! Money is not happiness. However old you are think about when you were very young and enjoying sports at any level. It's changed so much over time and not in a good way. Money has been the common denominator to the problem! Until the world realizes this with every facet of life it'll be lead to disappointment, letdown, and unhappiness. I'm a longtime sports fan, U of I alum, and have had so many great experiences in life/sports that I'm so fortunate to have had, but we as humans don't have it figured out.
On a more positive note, I saw where the Gator Bait cheer was allowed back at Florida. I hope that means Chief could come back at some point. May be a dream, but I'll keep pushing for it. If we give up we give in. What an honor to the Illiniwek for many years! At least it's a start!
Looking forward to a fantastic year for our Illini! ILL!

Amen. Understand and relate to the same sentiments.

 

[Fly Illini Fly!]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2098041784941031734

 

[RockfordIllini]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2098041784941031734

I was surprised he was drafted. I don’t see how he fits in the NBA. Not a great defender or rebounder. Career 28% three point shooter on really low volume. Good pick and roll player and good and efficient post scorer but what NBA team is going to keep him on the floor to put up those push shots if he can’t guard anybody or rebound?

And eligibility issues aside I would steer clear of him in the portal. I think his stats were largely a product of playing with Smith as evidenced by the fact that Cluff slid into that primary PnR action for a good chunk of last year and was better/more efficient than TKR. If he’s relied upon to be an iso post scorer, i think his efficiency drops off and he’s not a winning player. Not worth the $$ some team will likely throw at him.

Also, agree with board sentiment that this stinks.

 

[Calvin]

I’d like the beloved to win a ‘ship before this whole farce implodes. Already seeing cracks with College Football popularity.

Are there? AFAICT the sports doing well.

I get the nostalgia, but I don't think you would get any from Indiana fans, or any other program that was on the outside looking in for that matter, penalized for following the rules. Or the athletes, who were throw-aways if they weren't NFL level. Plenty to criticize, but overall?

Nearly all legacy entertainment has been disrupted over the past decade and we can't truly compare where college football would be with the old model. And there are obviously things not to like about college football in 2026. But I'll take today over yesteryear personally (the players sure as heck would) and I think most fans are at a minimum still onboard.

Edit, a bit late to the discussion - I see my overall point mostly made already.

 

[Illinisnake]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2098041784941031734

Yeah, literally drafted by NBA team. I really hope the NCAA figures this out, he shouldn't be allowed to play.

 

[March2TheArch]

Are there? AFAICT the sports doing well.

I get the nostalgia, but I don't think you would get any from Indiana fans, or any other program that was on the outside looking in for that matter, penalized for following the rules. Or the athletes, who were throw-aways if they weren't NFL level. Plenty to criticize, but overall?

Nearly all legacy entertainment has been disrupted over the past decade and we can't truly compare where college football would be with the old model. And there are obviously things not to like about college football in 2026. But I'll take today over yesteryear personally (the players sure as heck would) and I think most fans are at a minimum still onboard.

Edit, a bit late to the discussion - I see my overall point mostly made already.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2097394346308047278

Happy to be in the minority I guess then.

 

[ChiefGritty]

But I'll take today over yesteryear personally (the players sure as heck would)

So much of the bad of where we are, in both sports but especially for basketball, exists because in a very obviously doomed last-ditch attempt to vent off the pressure to unravel amateurism, the NCAA tore down all limits on player movement, torching its own leverage and credibility as an enforcer in the marketplace for players and making total freedom of movement an existing reality on the ground when the financial dam inevitably broke.

Total freedom of player movement and eligibility was NOT inevitable. That was a highly contingent decision made by leaders who thought it could prevent something they should have known better about.

(You could technically say that about "name image and likeness" rights outright legalizing free market pay-for-play overnight too, but in that case the leaders knew exactly what they were doing, they just granted themselves the fig leaf of pretending otherwise)

It could have, should have, and would have all been different with better more far-sighted leadership. It's now much harder to put humpty-dumpty back together, but still possible and we should still try.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

So much of the bad of where we are, in both sports but especially for basketball, exists because in a very obviously doomed last-ditch attempt to vent off the pressure to unravel amateurism, the NCAA tore down all limits on player movement, torching its own leverage and credibility as an enforcer in the marketplace for players and making total freedom of movement an existing reality on the ground when the financial dam inevitably broke.

Total freedom of player movement and eligibility was NOT inevitable. That was a highly contingent decision made by leaders who thought it could prevent something they should have known better about.

(You could technically say that about "name image and likeness" rights outright legalizing free market pay-for-play overnight too, but in that case the leaders knew exactly what they were doing, they just granted themselves the fig leaf of pretending otherwise)

It could have, should have, and would have all been different with better more far-sighted leadership. It's now much harder to put humpty-dumpty back together, but still possible and we should still try.

Schools and/or the NCAA could end the insanity by making players employees and letting them form a collective bargaining unit, but they don’t want that. They want to keep begging donors to pay the players even as the amounts to do so increase absurdly each year. They have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Schools and/or the NCAA could end the insanity by making players employees and letting them form a collective bargaining unit, but they don’t want that.

Why would the players volunteer to form an organization whose sole purpose would be limiting their bargaining power?

I was a card-carrying "fix everything with a union" guy until it sunk in that there was nothing in that plan for the players.

Now, when the bubble bursts, maybe that changes. But as long as NIL values are exploding year after year with zero limitation on player movement, the status quo is the best of all possible worlds for today's players.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

Why would the players volunteer to form an organization whose sole purpose would be limiting their bargaining power?

I was a card-carrying "fix everything with a union" guy until it sunk in that there was nothing in that plan for the players.

Now, when the bubble bursts, maybe that changes. But as long as NIL values are exploding year after year with zero limitation on player movement, the status quo is the best of all possible worlds for today's players.

Well… the alternative could be the total implosion of the industry. If at the end of the day, only one or two super conferences have the resources to pay players because of the ever increasing going rate, then the majority of athletes will lose in the long run. The current system is not sustainable. Without serious change where both sides compromise, it’s destined to come crashing down.

 

[March2TheArch]

Well… the alternative could be the total implosion of the industry. If at the end of the day, only one or two super conferences have the resources to pay players because of the ever increasing going rate, then the majority of athletes will lose in the long run. The current system is not sustainable. Without serious change where both sides compromise, it’s destined to come crashing down.

See Euro club soccer. A handful of English teams and a handful of continental teams have won practically every European Champions League (the highest level of soccer in the world) for decades now.

Think about that 100s of teams across England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Netherlands, Turkey, Greece, etc. And you can count on two hands the # of Champions League winners.

Headed for the same fate with college athletics at a rapid rate thanks to NIL budget escalation with no salary cap.

Kudos to Indiana football. The one anomaly so far.

You’re gonna see more and more chalk in March Madness. And the Final Four will be dominated by 1 and 2 seeds even more than before. Look at Duke this year they have not one but two distinct starting 5s - one consensus Top 2 and another debatably Top 10.

 

[Det_Illini_fan]

See Euro club soccer. A handful of English teams and a handful of continental teams have won practically every European Champions League (the highest level of soccer in the world) for decades now.

Think about that 100s of teams across England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Netherlands, Turkey, Greece, etc. And you can count on two hands the # of Champions League winners.

Headed for the same fate with college athletics at a rapid rate thanks to NIL budget escalation with no salary cap.

Kudos to Indiana football. The one anomaly so far.

You’re gonna see more and more chalk in March Madness. And the Final Four will be dominated by 1 and 2 seeds even more than before. Look at Duke this year they have not one but two distinct starting 5s - one consensus Top 2 and another debatably Top 10.

Yay. I just want one god damn National Championship before it falls further into Hell.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Well… the alternative could be the total implosion of the industry. If at the end of the day, only one or two super conferences have the resources to pay players because of the ever increasing going rate, then the majority of athletes will lose in the long run. The current system is not sustainable. Without serious change where both sides compromise, it’s destined to come crashing down.

I totally agree with this, I just ultimately don't expect current players to do something so speculative (and very practically difficult, no one is exactly sure how a college sports union would work, and there have been attempts) to benefit future players at a huge cost to themselves.

But that kind of goes to my original point. If the entrusted leaders of these institutions had really cared about stewarding the game into its unavoidably changed future in that 2010-2013ish period when the unworkability of the old ways became clear, revenue sport collective bargaining was absolutely possible.

We could have had Literally 1995 in college sports with the sole change being players getting cut in on the exploding financial growth of the industry in a structured and stable way. We could have done it. None of this was inevitable.

 

[Chief Piasa]

Well… the alternative could be the total implosion of the industry. If at the end of the day, only one or two super conferences have the resources to pay players because of the ever increasing going rate, then the majority of athletes will lose in the long run. The current system is not sustainable. Without serious change where both sides compromise, it’s destined to come crashing down.

This is a fascinating topic.

College is education and college sports are an industry, as you said. But it’s the entertainment industry and you don’t see talent like Beyoncé or Taylor Swift or Paul McCartney clamoring for unions. Talent like that can demand their own pay scale and that means that only a few cities or venues can accommodate them.

By the same logic, entertainers like Arch Manning and AJ Dybantsa can command top dollar and only a few colleges and conferences can afford them. That’s entertainment and that’s America. Since more schools have surfaced as new powers, maybe the entertainment industry is a good thing.

I’m really curious as to whether the proposed congressional action will even be constitutional since I’m sure Taylor Swift and Arch Manning wouldn’t appreciate it if we required them to unionize and lose money.

Whether this causes the implosion of the industry is a good question. Maybe we’ll have a super college industry and another college championship of “real” college students that will become popular. If that popularity happens, and it produces money, the next question is whether we go down this rat hole again.

 

[wc_illini]

Well… the alternative could be the total implosion of the industry. If at the end of the day, only one or two super conferences have the resources to pay players because of the ever increasing going rate, then the majority of athletes will lose in the long run. The current system is not sustainable. Without serious change where both sides compromise, it’s destined to come crashing down.

I agree some conferences/schools won't be able to afford to maintain their past/present level of success, but there have always been (and I imagine still currently are) a large chunk of players playing for just a scholarship and room/board. The "have-not" programs will be less competitive than they were before, but I don't think that will lead to an implosion of the industry or leave players worse off.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I totally agree with this, I just ultimately don't expect current players to do something so speculative (and very practically difficult, no one is exactly sure how a college sports union would work, and there have been attempts) to benefit future players at a huge cost to themselves.

Really?

Pro sports have unions. TAs and RAs have unions. It would probably work like either or both or some combination of those.

But that kind of goes to my original point. If the entrusted leaders of these institutions had really cared about stewarding the game into its unavoidably changed future in that 2010-2013ish period when the unworkability of the old ways became clear, revenue sport collective bargaining was absolutely possible.

We could have had Literally 1995 in college sports with the sole change being players getting cut in on the exploding financial growth of the industry in a structured and stable way. We could have done it. None of this was inevitable.

There really was no way for this to happen without players being employees, otherwise you just end up in the same exact place. And once players are employees a union is inevitable, as players will want the best possible deal and players' unions have a proven track record of increaseling player compensation (and safety). Not to mention that a bargained for CBA is easiest possible vehicle for implementing the guidelines the NCAA wants to implement. The NCAA just doesn't want to bargain for them. They want the guidelines without having to give anything up. You're not going to get that without a legislative anti-trust carve out.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Really?

Pro sports have unions. TAs and RAs have unions. It would probably work like either or both or some combination of those.


There really was no way for this to happen without players being employees, otherwise you just end up in the same exact place. And once players are employees a union is inevitable, as players will want the best possible deal and players' unions have a proven track record of increaseling player compensation (and safety). Not to mention that a bargained for CBA is easiest possible vehicle for implementing the guidelines the NCAA wants to implement. The NCAA just doesn't want to bargain for them. They want the guidelines without having to give anything up. You're not going to get that without a legislative anti-trust carve out.

Listen I don't want to sound like I'm not an ardent supporter of unionized labor, because the opposite is the case.

And I do believe a union, or at least something union-like would have been possible if you'd started from the conditions of 2010 rather than 2026 (it's still POSSIBLE and probably desirable, just unlikely and not in the individual players interests at this time).

But the overarching thing here is that college football and men's basketball are the most popular minor league sports on earth by several orders of magnitude. I think the impulse to build a rational business around college sports founders on the shoals of the whole enterprise not being remotely rational.

There is a magic to college sports, built on an appeal to one's own college years and a connectivity to tradition that's unique in the sports world. The challenge that faced the sport's leadership in the early 2000's was to find a way to steward and preserve that unique magic while bowing to the practical, legal, and moral necessity of cutting the players in on the explosion in revenue growth that magic was producing.

Instead, it's almost impossible to imagine how that leadership could have performed worse, acting with selfish disregard for the games they were stewarding, cynical greed for maximizing their own individual take, and no vision for the future or ability to work collectively whatsoever.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2097322298210451853

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/5175033/jizzle-james

sad

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

This is a fascinating topic.

College is education and college sports are an industry, as you said. But it’s the entertainment industry and you don’t see talent like Beyoncé or Taylor Swift or Paul McCartney clamoring for unions. Talent like that can demand their own pay scale and that means that only a few cities or venues can accommodate them.

By the same logic, entertainers like Arch Manning and AJ Dybantsa can command top dollar and only a few colleges and conferences can afford them. That’s entertainment and that’s America. Since more schools have surfaced as new powers, maybe the entertainment industry is a good thing.

I’m really curious as to whether the proposed congressional action will even be constitutional since I’m sure Taylor Swift and Arch Manning wouldn’t appreciate it if we required them to unionize and lose money.

Whether this causes the implosion of the industry is a good question. Maybe we’ll have a super college industry and another college championship of “real” college students that will become popular. If that popularity happens, and it produces money, the next question is whether we go down this rat hole again.

But you DO see top athletes in the NFL and NBA accept salary restrictions. The difference between a Taylor Swift and a Patrick Mahomes is that there aren’t a limit of 32 venues where Swift could perform. If a Lady Gaga or Billie Eilish comes along and becomes better than Taylor Swift, Swift isn’t in danger of being unemployed. Once Mahomes becomes washed up, there’s no Vegas residency for him. NFL and NBA players accept the restrictions because they know a five year contract (mostly) means they’ll be guaranteed five years worth of salary, even if they ultimately perform at Ryan Leaf level.

Edit: I do suppose that the broadcast booth is the athlete’s equivalent of a Vegas residency.