Illini4Reel
- Champaign, IL.
What about Larry Krystkowiak at Utah? He is really doing great things over there.
2017 Coaching Carousel
- Status
Not much reason to think he'd leave.
I bet brad Stevens leave the celtics if/when k leaves.
If you don't have a top superstar like lebron / steph / Russ you aren't in position to win it all.
The celts are just good enough to not get lottery opportunities for a player like that and not good enough to run with the big dogs.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I wonder if ol' Buzz Williams would be interested in heading back to the Midwest.
If this were just about the performance of the basketball team... I'd 100% agree.
Sadly, if Whitman believes We are gonna lose JT and/or another commit (which is probably an 80% chance someone leaves this upcoming class if JG gets canned), then I dont see him doing it. Not saying he couldn't, or he shouldn't, or even that I wouldn't welcome it, it's just a hunch he won't.
As far as I'm concerned, JG would've been gone if it weren't for JT last year. I don't really care injuries riddled the team last year, the suspensions were just as bad and that's as much on the coach, if not more, as it was dumb luck since he's the one who recruited these guys.
Now, I think if he makes the NIT (I know we shouldn't even strive for this but at this point I need something to hang onto) and wins a game or two, Whitman's decision is even harder (even though it shouldn't be). Whitman, like many other newly appointed ADs, want to bring there own guy in, and maybe its the fact that Groce has all the human characteristics you want in a coach or maybe its the ties with recruits, but it certainly wasn't his past performances.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather rebuild after this season, lose a guy or two, be muddled in poor performances (not like we are cruising through march now anyways) for a year, maybe two or three, but see improvement on court, than to sit through this completely mediocre and predictably bad season performances year in and year out, winning between 15 and 18 games every year, hoping for a better result next year because "we'll have more experience" or "new talent will push us over the bubble." Before the WV game, I positive thoughts on Groce's future here, I knew he wasn't a great in game coach, but I always thought he was at least decent at prepping a stocked team (hard to complain about last year even though I've contradicted myself here) for challenges a specific team may bring. The kind of inbounding we were trying to do just doesn't work against a press like WV's. Nothing changed in game, and nothing's gonna change by the time we see a team with a similar kind of pressure. Obviously I want Groce to try something new against VCU and maybe he will but literally zero evidence in his past suggests this will be the case. Maybe we don't lose by 40 (? cant remember exact difference in WV game), but if we win it most likely isn't going to be our game planning, it'll be either a great individual performance or a meltdown by VCU.
Fire Groce at the end of the season, take a couple licks the next couple of years with a new coach, and hope he can bring some actual improvement to the table.
homesickalien
- Springfield
Would love that to happen.
Just looked up his salary at VT and it's double of what Groce makes. I was kind of surprised by that. That would be a great hire if we could somehow make it happen.
Also, I found this about Cuonzo Martin:
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.co...n-california-golden-bears-basketball-contract
That's not much money for California. If we can offer something in the 2-3 million range, that would be tough to turn down even if Cal significantly boosts his salary. I feel like 3 million in C-U would be like the equivalent of 5 million in California and that's not even close to what he's making there, at least from what I've found so far.
I like some of the picks mentioned so far but he's up there with Archie Miller for my preferred picks. I think he is a realistic option and one that would be able to keep the 2017 class intact.
I don't know how much this still holds true, but I've heard as recent as this month that Illinois's coaching position is not as easy to fill as the past due to the administrative barriers of even getting recruits into U of I and not due to a decline in prestige or recruiting Chicago. This is coming from an individual that talks with the Board of Directors. I'm a proponent of let the clearinghouse do its job and then let the Irwin Academic Center follow suit.
As long as we're in pipe dream land, how about Doug, with an heir-apparent at his side for when he gets too tired of it? That might be close to a Lovie-like hire.
Buzz Williams would be a good hire imo. His players are physically and emotionally tough....And that's something I don't see with a lot of our players.
I generally agree with your synopsis here, with a few other nuances thrown in....
On the bolded part: This scares me the most. If we should pull off an NIT invite, and actually win a couple of games (no total meltdowns), then I'm afraid that JW might feel compelled to keep him, given that Tilmon might leave if JG is canned. (NOTE: I don't really understand what better choices Tilmon might have come next March, as most of the recruiting for that class is complete, and most blue bloods won't have any room for him ? ? IDK) Plus, there are always some who leave when the coach gets fired... Yet, many times a good hire can (re-recruit) the top guys he wants to keep, so it's NOT a given that Tilmon would leave. The reason I'm afraid is that even with Tilmon and all his stars, I'm not convinced that we are all that much better in 2017 or 2018 anyway....
Of course no one knows what JW is thinking (or planning) - least of all me, but I sometimes worry that with the Lovie hire, JW is so concerned about turning Illinois into a FB school, that he might let JG run awhile, and like water, find it's own level. Then after a few years of 'total' evidence in the docket, decide about the BB situation. FB is first and foremost the money driver. Think of all the schools that are blue bloods in FB, and have lousy or non-consequential BB programs, and they get by...
My only hope is that we can win something (anything) in FB and/or BB before I end my time on this rock...
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I generally agree with your synopsis here, with a few other nuances thrown in....
On the bolded part: This scares me the most. If we should pull off an NIT invite, and actually win a couple of games (no total meltdowns), then I'm afraid that JW might feel compelled to keep him, given that Tilmon might leave if JG is canned. (NOTE: I don't really understand what better choices Tilmon might have come next March, as most of the recruiting for that class is complete, and most blue bloods won't have any room for him ? ? IDK) Plus, there are always some who leave when the coach gets fired... Yet, many times a good hire can (re-recruit) the top guys he wants to keep, so it's NOT a given that Tilmon would leave. The reason I'm afraid is that even with Tilmon and all his stars, I'm not convinced that we are all that much better in 2017 or 2018 anyway....
Of course no one knows what JW is thinking (or planning) - least of all me, but I sometimes worry that with the Lovie hire, JW is so concerned about turning Illinois into a FB school, that he might let JG run awhile, and like water, find it's own level. Then after a few years of 'total' evidence in the docket, decide about the BB situation. FB is first and foremost the money driver. Think of all the schools that are blue bloods in FB, and have lousy or non-consequential BB programs, and they get by...
My only hope is that we can win something (anything) in FB and/or BB before I end my time on this rock...
Yup totally agree with all that. I find zero reason to believe 2017 is gonna be better than now with Groce. And yeah I agree a new coach can re recruit guys, especially if he's a good hire.
That's why I said if we do happen to do something extraordinary (get to the finals in the B1G tourney, win a couple in the NIT, etc.) Groce probably buys himself a year or two.. But I haven't seen growth in his teams or in his coaching ability, so i dont believe either will happen.
Many choices, not only will teams be willing to take Tilmon and have "honest" conversations with players to transfer, but the blue bloods will likely be the first ones to have room with NBA draft defections.
Hmm, I don't think that was in your original post because if Gill was the coach, Groce is no longer around. But if you're going to compare them right now, Groce has the advantage of having recruited those players and developing relationships with them & their families for several years. Saying more kids knew him compared to Groce is rather obvious but we're talking present day, not 5 years ago.
What you would want to do now is compared Gill's status with recruits compared to other potential candidates, not the guy that is assumed to be our former coach.
Aside from the annual "our best player is on the bench" talk, is there any actual reason to believe Lucas will be much of an above average player any time in the next few years, if ever? I hope so just as much as anyone, but the one player class of an allegedly under the radar pg with which so many have been so enamored for the last year continues to confound.
There seems to be a decent amount of "Whitman doesn't understand the situation clearly and is going to make the wrong decision" sentiment around.
I think that's really a bit of a trojan horse for people actually supporting the "magic trap" plan that Newman advocated earlier, but regardless, I strenuously disagree.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
People need to snap out of it a bit on this recruiting class. It's good, but it's not like we have the Fab Five coming in. Hardly breaking news, but our Chronic Bridesmaid Syndrome in basketball recruiting convinces people that not only will they all instantly disappear, but that we'all also never get recruits of this caliber again. That's baseless.
Keeping Groce for the sake of this class is total insanity.
Keeping Groce for the sake of this class is total insanity.
The Ron Swanson avatar is an unfair advantage in the Cutting To The Chase battle we're having here
One thing we haven't really talked about is $$ when it comes to the coaching change. Now, I understand that big money donors can buy out anyone if they really want to. However, Groce hasn't received a contract extension recently right?
I looked and could only find the extension back in 2014 that pushed his contract out to the 2018/2019 season. All of those folks that think an NIT bid might push JW into extending Groce should also consider that JW will need to give Groce a contract extension to not hamper recruiting.
If he then fails with the 5* talent that we are extending him to keep, our buyout is even more.
There are plenty of things Whitman will take into consideration, on court performance, recruiting, attendance, and buyout. If we retain Groce, recruiting will be hindered by a two year contract (if we don't extend).
So, should Whitman extend the contract of someone who hasn't made the tourney in 4 years? Would you? That's a lot of scratch...and donors probably won't be happy considering their money would be paying the buyout.
I looked and could only find the extension back in 2014 that pushed his contract out to the 2018/2019 season. All of those folks that think an NIT bid might push JW into extending Groce should also consider that JW will need to give Groce a contract extension to not hamper recruiting.
If he then fails with the 5* talent that we are extending him to keep, our buyout is even more.
There are plenty of things Whitman will take into consideration, on court performance, recruiting, attendance, and buyout. If we retain Groce, recruiting will be hindered by a two year contract (if we don't extend).
So, should Whitman extend the contract of someone who hasn't made the tourney in 4 years? Would you? That's a lot of scratch...and donors probably won't be happy considering their money would be paying the buyout.
Joel Goodson
- ties will be resolved
Cuonzo, being an ESL guy, would probably have the best chance at retaining JT. Not suggesting that's the only reason we should try, but it's a big one.
Not sure on how good Lucas is, but I'd like to find out. He looked pretty good to me and does a couple of things we haven't had in a while:
He has strong enough handles to actually utilize a ball screen. We've routinely complained about our bigs setting poor screens, but the reality is that our guards aren't confident in their dribble to effectively utilize a screen. The ball handler needs to force his man into the screen and too often our PGs instinctively back away from their defender instead, which gives them the space to get around the screener.
He actually drives the lane and looks to score/pass. Made a couple of nice floaters and knows enough to not get too deep.
Yeah, it's still really early in his career and other teams haven't even really scouted him yet. But he's certainly got more upside than Tate.
I don't think it's a big issue. The buyout is only for the base salary, so that's around $400K/year. Much less than we had to pay Weber or Zook. If you extend a year, it's only adding another $400K. I do believe there is a $500K bonus due to him next spring, so that's another thing Whitman has to consider.
Joel Goodson
- ties will be resolved
+infinity factorial
- Status