Illini4Reel
- Champaign, IL.
What about Larry Krystkowiak at Utah? He is really doing great things over there.
What about Larry Krystkowiak at Utah? He is really doing great things over there.
I honestly think Chris Collins will leave NW to take the Duke job once K retires.
I'm not sure what Whitman thinks, but I disagree. Groce HAS to make the tourney this year or he is gone.
I wonder if ol' Buzz Williams would be interested in heading back to the Midwest.
I wonder if ol' Buzz Williams would be interested in heading back to the Midwest.
No way anyone would hire him with no head coaching experience! How about Chrissy at Northwestern?:tsk:
If this were just about the performance of the basketball team... I'd 100% agree.
Sadly, if Whitman believes We are gonna lose JT and/or another commit (which is probably an 80% chance someone leaves this upcoming class if JG gets canned), then I dont see him doing it. Not saying he couldn't, or he shouldn't, or even that I wouldn't welcome it, it's just a hunch he won't.
As far as I'm concerned, JG would've been gone if it weren't for JT last year. I don't really care injuries riddled the team last year, the suspensions were just as bad and that's as much on the coach, if not more, as it was dumb luck since he's the one who recruited these guys.
Now, I think if he makes the NIT (I know we shouldn't even strive for this but at this point I need something to hang onto) and wins a game or two, Whitman's decision is even harder (even though it shouldn't be). Whitman, like many other newly appointed ADs, want to bring there own guy in, and maybe its the fact that Groce has all the human characteristics you want in a coach or maybe its the ties with recruits, but it certainly wasn't his past performances.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather rebuild after this season, lose a guy or two, be muddled in poor performances (not like we are cruising through march now anyways) for a year, maybe two or three, but see improvement on court, than to sit through this completely mediocre and predictably bad season performances year in and year out, winning between 15 and 18 games every year, hoping for a better result next year because "we'll have more experience" or "new talent will push us over the bubble." Before the WV game, I positive thoughts on Groce's future here, I knew he wasn't a great in game coach, but I always thought he was at least decent at prepping a stocked team (hard to complain about last year even though I've contradicted myself here) for challenges a specific team may bring. The kind of inbounding we were trying to do just doesn't work against a press like WV's. Nothing changed in game, and nothing's gonna change by the time we see a team with a similar kind of pressure. Obviously I want Groce to try something new against VCU and maybe he will but literally zero evidence in his past suggests this will be the case. Maybe we don't lose by 40 (? cant remember exact difference in WV game), but if we win it most likely isn't going to be our game planning, it'll be either a great individual performance or a meltdown by VCU.
Fire Groce at the end of the season, take a couple licks the next couple of years with a new coach, and hope he can bring some actual improvement to the table.
I generally agree with your synopsis here, with a few other nuances thrown in....
On the bolded part: This scares me the most. If we should pull off an NIT invite, and actually win a couple of games (no total meltdowns), then I'm afraid that JW might feel compelled to keep him, given that Tilmon might leave if JG is canned. (NOTE: I don't really understand what better choices Tilmon might have come next March, as most of the recruiting for that class is complete, and most blue bloods won't have any room for him ? ? IDK) Plus, there are always some who leave when the coach gets fired... Yet, many times a good hire can (re-recruit) the top guys he wants to keep, so it's NOT a given that Tilmon would leave. The reason I'm afraid is that even with Tilmon and all his stars, I'm not convinced that we are all that much better in 2017 or 2018 anyway....
Of course no one knows what JW is thinking (or planning) - least of all me, but I sometimes worry that with the Lovie hire, JW is so concerned about turning Illinois into a FB school, that he might let JG run awhile, and like water, find it's own level. Then after a few years of 'total' evidence in the docket, decide about the BB situation. FB is first and foremost the money driver. Think of all the schools that are blue bloods in FB, and have lousy or non-consequential BB programs, and they get by...
My only hope is that we can win something (anything) in FB and/or BB before I end my time on this rock...
I don't really understand what better choices Tilmon might have come next March, as most of the recruiting for that class is complete, and most blue bloods won't have any room for him ? ?
Let's try this again.. I was saying why would a recruit be more drawn to John Groce vs. Gill. I can guarantee that most high school kids in Chicago knew more about Gill than Groce when we hired him. I was referencing my original post not email , my bad.
I personally think the team will absolutely be competitive, and that this past week will be the lowest point of this season.
No PG=no offense. TJL starts from here on out, and Tracy backs him up. Tate is relegated to spot duty.
While Groce is ultimately responsible for the void that has existed on the roster, it's clear that a competent playmaker makes this offense work.
He made a massive error rolling the dice with the two seniors thinking their experience would be enough to overcome the talent gap while TJL recovered.
Despite a horrific week by UI bball standards, I think he can get it done assuming the talent continues to roll in.
This scares me the most. If we should pull off an NIT invite, and actually win a couple of games (no total meltdowns), then I'm afraid that JW might feel compelled to keep him
You still try too hard to argue "should versus shouldn't."
Saying that JW likes Groce and may not be willing to risk the 2017 class, IF Groce makes the NIT, is not so far fetched.
People need to snap out of it a bit on this recruiting class. It's good, but it's not like we have the Fab Five coming in. Hardly breaking news, but our Chronic Bridesmaid Syndrome in basketball recruiting convinces people that not only will they all instantly disappear, but that we'all also never get recruits of this caliber again. That's baseless.
Keeping Groce for the sake of this class is total insanity.
Travis Ford made the tournament the year a recruiting class allegedly "saved his job".
Listen, I've made my point. You can listen or not. But John Groce is going to be fired if we're not in the NCAA's. I guarantee it.
(I knew we were going to be the test case for a hot seat coach and the First Four from the very instant it was announced. This is our destiny.)
Just looked up his salary at VT and it's double of what Groce makes. I was kind of surprised by that. That would be a great hire if we could somehow make it happen.
Also, I found this about Cuonzo Martin:
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.co...n-california-golden-bears-basketball-contract
That's not much money for California. If we can offer something in the 2-3 million range, that would be tough to turn down even if Cal significantly boosts his salary. I feel like 3 million in C-U would be like the equivalent of 5 million in California and that's not even close to what he's making there, at least from what I've found so far.
I like some of the picks mentioned so far but he's up there with Archie Miller for my preferred picks. I think he is a realistic option and one that would be able to keep the 2017 class intact.
Aside from the annual "our best player is on the bench" talk, is there any actual reason to believe Lucas will be much of an above average player any time in the next few years, if ever? I hope so just as much as anyone, but the one player class of an allegedly under the radar pg with which so many have been so enamored for the last year continues to confound.
One thing we haven't really talked about is $$ when it comes to the coaching change. Now, I understand that big money donors can buy out anyone if they really want to. However, Groce hasn't received a contract extension recently right?
I looked and could only find the extension back in 2014 that pushed his contract out to the 2018/2019 season. All of those folks that think an NIT bid might push JW into extending Groce should also consider that JW will need to give Groce a contract extension to not hamper recruiting.
If he then fails with the 5* talent that we are extending him to keep, our buyout is even more.
There are plenty of things Whitman will take into consideration, on court performance, recruiting, attendance, and buyout. If we retain Groce, recruiting will be hindered by a two year contract (if we don't extend).
So, should Whitman extend the contract of someone who hasn't made the tourney in 4 years? Would you? That's a lot of scratch...and donors probably won't be happy considering their money would be paying the buyout.
People need to snap out of it a bit on this recruiting class. It's good, but it's not like we have the Fab Five coming in. Hardly breaking news, but our Chronic Bridesmaid Syndrome in basketball recruiting convinces people that not only will they all instantly disappear, but that we'all also never get recruits of this caliber again. That's baseless.
Keeping Groce for the sake of this class is total insanity.