2017 Coaching Carousel

StateFarmCenter · Jan 21, 2017

Kathy said:
Is there any reason to wait until the end of the season?

A few.

1) Recuiting is definitely the biggest reason. Fire him now and the vultures start circling on every commit we have (and Mark Smith, whatever his situation is). Delaying until March delays the whole thought process.

2) Who do you replace him with? Most would say Walker I would imagine. Problem with that is you want him to be an assistant coach candidate with the next coach (nothing forced). But he won't be if he takes over the HC reigns now. Doubt a new HC would want to keep him around then.

3) There's also always that annoying player revolt to keep the interim on a permanent basis at the end of the year. We even saw it with Jerrance Howard here and he didn't even coach a game.

4) Coaches are a fraternity so you don't want to upset them either. Make it so he got a "fair shake".

Obelix · Jan 21, 2017

Kathy said:
Is there any reason to wait until the end of the season?

Other than for disciplinary reasons beyond performance it would be in very bad taste to fire Groce mid-season. It will not happen.

LarryGotFouled · Jan 21, 2017

SeattleSlim said:
I love seeing your moniker, LGF! Reminds me of better days (although not better moments).

Ha. Thanks SS. Amen to that. Seminal moment to us quasi-old timers. Not to get involved in all the 'Top 15 job' posts, but regardless of the program's NCAA tournament record or overall won/loss record, what a lot of us remember is how powerful the Illini Nation is when the program is rolling. In the glory years, I'd be at Purdue games in W Lafayette and it could sound like a 50/50 crowd. We need to bring that back before overall fan apathy sets in and a whole generation of potential Illini Nation fans turn to other things.

MadSeason · Jan 21, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
Disagree on UK, maybe UNC, Cal is 57 though and will likely be around for longer than his peers at the blue bloods.

Agreed. He isn't going anywhere and why would he?

MadSeason · Jan 21, 2017

Sleepy Floyd said:
Yeah Tilmon next year is probably equal in production to a good 5th year big. I don't have much faith in freshmen bigs.

What 5th year bigs are you referring to? Mclaurin? Thorne? Tilmon will be the most impactful Freshman we have had since Dee and Deron.

No this class isn't worth keeping Groce for, but Tilmon will make an instant impact in college.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 21, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
There is a contingent of folks still firm in the belief he deserves a year 6, although we'll see what they have to say after this showing.

I just want the best for our players, I can't watch more players come through the program and never play in the tournament. They deserve better.

We all want the best for our school. All these guys deserve better, especially Malcolm and Morgan. Time to cut our losses and move forward. Let Groce ride the year out but I see this thing spiraling out of control.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 21, 2017

Kathy said:
Is there any reason to wait until the end of the season?

Plenty of reason:
1. Do you trust Dustin Ford to coach this team? We'll be consistently losing by 30+ every game. Think Rutgers before this year.
2. Groce does deserve a full year of healthy players. He is making the decision a lot easier and is digging his own grave so to speak.
3. No reason to fire a coach in-season as all coaching hires aren't made until after the NCAA tourney ends anyways. In other words, there would be no positive to firing him mid-season. We wouldn't get a head start on anything.

SescIllini · Jan 21, 2017

I think Cuanzo Martin has to be the guy right now. An ESL guy could possibly keep all of our downstate guys (and recruit Smith) in the fold. His track record at P5 programs is solid. He is a proven recruiter and will have instant credibility as a coach.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 21, 2017

I believe we can still hold onto 3/4 of this class regardless of Groce's eventual dismissal. Pickett is a U of I guy, Da'Monte is a U of I guy, Frazier by all accounts likes U of I. As for Tilmon, it will depend on the coach, but I'm sure he's already wondering about his decision he made, so it wouldn't surprise me if he pulled a Kipper Nichols and left early on.

FinalFour88 · Jan 21, 2017

scil73 said:
stop just stop, people are making excuses for Groce. This has become a woman rationalizing staying with her man who beats her (no not that far but you get the point). We as a program are above this and deserve better. I realy like Groce, realy really think he is a great guy, but he isnt our guy. I dont care about Tillman i dont care about the class, it i time to move on. This is the equivalent of I wont leave her because the trip to NYC is coming up, this is too obvious to not happen. Time to move on

Bingo.

cmrfrd7 · Jan 21, 2017

Who needs to stop? I don't see anyone championing the "Keep Groce" cause. That's a tough case to make at this point.

coltjames03 · Jan 21, 2017

Gees would people please stop with the Martin. Idc if he went to Morgan Park or Simeon he isn't that great of a coach. Cal has barely played anyone this year and the good teams he did play he lost. Got destroyed by Oregon without Brooks the entire 2nd half. Gave up so many open threes and the offense no please no.

muskyman99 · Jan 21, 2017

Just another reason to move on from Groce. K-State just beat WVU to go 15-4. I am not a Weber fan. There worse lost was 10 points to Baylor. I would assume Weber's recruiting classes are ranked lower than Groce's. No question we are going in the wrong direction.

LurkLongandProsper · Jan 21, 2017

SescIllini said:
I think Cuanzo Martin has to be the guy right now. An ESL guy could possibly keep all of our downstate guys (and recruit Smith) in the fold. His track record at P5 programs is solid. He is a proven recruiter and will have instant credibility as a coach.

In light of this post, just a quick bump for anyone who has missed it or is just joining the thread:

LurkLongandProsper said:
For your halftime (and beyond) perusal:

Updated the spreadsheet, now has conference record and final place in standings for all seasons

Also want to bump this, because TCR was discussing Trent as a risk to leave in their article:

https://twitter.com/_Trentfrazier1/status/814564269245288448

Trent
‏@_Trentfrazier1

@JustinRust Its the best school for me and it fits me,why do you think I choose that school? It's my new home and I'm not going anywhere

^ Worth noting it is from December 29th, but recent twitter activity does not suggest anything has changed.

Calvin · Jan 21, 2017

Kathy said:
Is there any reason to wait until the end of the season?

As has already been said, it's unlikely that you would make any headway on hiring someone during the season. And while it's not gonna happen, it's theoretically possible Groce could rattle off 9 or 10 wins to turn it around. Once he hits 10 losses, I think you dismiss him anytime you want. Even with that, I think you get the best chance of stability with your recruits with the shortest possible turn-around, so I wouldn't expect an announcement until the end of the regular season. If I thought it would give me an edge, I'd cut him before the BTT. It really depends on what my back channels were telling me about my top few candidates. Just guessing, but I would expect him to finish the regular season, and 80% to stay for the BTT even though he's already sealed his fate.

Groce hasn't embarrassed the university. He's had some player issues, but every program does. Like Weber, his fault has been mediocrity in coaching. Sadly, he's even under-performed Weber, who seems to have benefited from the change. The injuries last year may have been the best thing that happened to him, as it confused the issue as to why we were so bad. Pretty fortunate to get another $1.2 mil and a 5th year with his results.

jmwillini · Jan 21, 2017

Calvin said:
Like Weber, his fault has been mediocrity in coaching.

I have to disagree with this. I think Weber was a pretty good X's and O's guy, just stunk as a recruiter. I think Groce has been the polar opposite, a good, but not great recruiter and at best, mediocre coach. Where I think they mesh, (though for different reasons), is their inability to recruit a pure point guard. I love Tracy's competitiveness, but he isn't a true PG. Groce has tried, swinging for the fences, but has never gotten a true Big10 level PG. If Lucas was a sophomore, or especially a junior now, I don't THINK Groce would be in this position. If he had recruited Watson, gotten Snyder, etc,... I have never seen a Groce coached team with a veteran PG to see if his system works and that will be his downfall.

TCTORNADO · Jan 21, 2017

coltjames03 said:
Gees would people please stop with the Martin. Idc if he went to Morgan Park or Simeon he isn't that great of a coach. Cal has barely played anyone this year and the good teams he did play he lost. Got destroyed by Oregon without Brooks the entire 2nd half. Gave up so many open threes and the offense no please no.

The 40,000 Tennessee fans that signed a petition to fire Martin, agree.

DMan42 · Jan 21, 2017

TCTORNADO said:
The 40,000 Tennessee fans that signed a petition to fire Martin, agree.

Those fans simply wanted Pearl back. It had very little to do with Martin.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

IlliniFan17 · Jan 21, 2017

Kevin Keatts has my vote.

coltjames03 · Jan 21, 2017

What about Matt McCall?

ILL in IA · Jan 21, 2017

jmwillini said:
I have to disagree with this. I think Weber was a pretty good X's and O's guy, just stunk as a recruiter. I think Groce has been the polar opposite, a good, but not great recruiter and at best, mediocre coach. Where I think they mesh, (though for different reasons), is their inability to recruit a pure point guard. I love Tracy's competitiveness, but he isn't a true PG. Groce has tried, swinging for the fences, but has never gotten a true Big10 level PG. If Lucas was a sophomore, or especially a junior now, I don't THINK Groce would be in this position. If he had recruited Watson, gotten Snyder, etc,... I have never seen a Groce coached team with a veteran PG to see if his system works and that will be his downfall.

Agree. And after 5 years, no one to blame but Groce. And yet part of me still feels like we haven't been able to see what he would actually be able to do here with a pg in his system. Most of college sports problems are lined with "what if" but that feels like the summary of Groce at Illinois so far.

RickBB · Jan 21, 2017

ILL in IA said:
Agree. And after 5 years, no one to blame but Groce. And yet part of me still feels like we haven't been able to see what he would actually be able to do here with a pg in his system. Most of college sports problems are lined with "what if" but that feels like the summary of Groce at Illinois so far.

I had this same thought except he refuses to play TJL 30 minutes right now at this stage in the season. If he is that stubborn then he deserves to pay for it with his job.

MadSeason · Jan 21, 2017

coltjames03 said:
What about Matt McCall?

Tier 3 candidate imo. Hard to tell what credit to give him when he took over a program that Will Wade had going strong. Florida guy with no real connection to this area.

Has done very well with the Mocs though

StateFarmCenter · Jan 21, 2017

I don't think McCall is worth bringing up since you'd choose Keatts over him and I don't see it getting past Keatts.

coltjames03 · Jan 21, 2017

MadSeason said:
Tier 3 candidate imo. Hard to tell what credit to give him when he took over a program that Will Wade had going strong. Florida guy with no real connection to this area.

Has done very well with the Mocs though

Can't argue that just thinking outside the box and anyone but Martin. I just find it funny because everyone praises Martin but he took over programs that were winning before him and he hasn't made them better. Kept them basically the same. Tennessee winning under Pearl, California winning under Montgomery.