2017 Coaching Carousel

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#3,926      
Gottfried won't get fired

People are dismissing Archie, too, and I'm not sure he's not still in play. If NC State opens up, all bets are off. I'd guess they offer and he accepts. But IF Gottfried survives AND Whitman offers $3M, he might bite. And Keatts is still a viable option apparently, but I'm not completely sold just yet. It's tough to decide. If Werner thinks it's either Miznoz or the Illini for Cuonzo, I'm guessing he knows something.





I really don't think Gottfried gets the axe this year they will at least get to the NIT and they have a young team. He has 4 more years on his deal I think he at least gets another year. Go after Archie hard next month but he might wait one more year to see if gets the NC State job next year.
 
#3,928      

Wittsdream

Chicago

I understand what you're getting at S & C, but to play's devil's advocate, I can just as easily say "is 3 years enough time for a new coach, in a new milieu, with an entire reset on sewing fresh relationships on the recruiting trail, enough time to determine long-term success?"

I don't know!

I'd be happy with Keatts, Miller or Martin, but I just don't believe fans should dismiss Martin wholesale just yet.

I would likely rate Miller as the best Xs and Os coach, and Martin the best recruiter. Keatts might be runner-up in both categories.

I think Martin could really find his sweet spot, recruiting-wise, back in his roots, and coaches can improve over time, especially if buttressed by a good staff. I would argue that Brandon Miller was a huge reason why Groce was successful early on at Illinois, at least tactically.

I guess the appeal of CM boils down to his strong potential in recruiting both SW Illinois and the Chicago area. And I do believe Illinois teams under him would be competitive, sound defensively, and the culture of the program would be in good hands, as they would be with Keatts and Miller.

Let's just find a way to somehow keep Tilmon and add Smith. Those two are future NBA players, IMO. Illinois hasn't had that deep a backcourt in a long time if we have Frazier, TJL, Smith, JCL and DMW (and Pickett is no slouch either).
 
#3,929      
I really don't think Gottfried gets the axe this year they will at least get to the NIT and they have a young team. He has 4 more years on his deal I think he at least gets another year. Go after Archie hard next month but he might wait one more year to see if gets the NC State job next year.

He does have a young team but the brightest piece of that group won't be back next year (Dennis Smith). It's looking like another dismal ACC record and the trend is definitely downward there.
 
#3,930      
Serious question: Is there really any reason Martin would want to come to Illinois from Cal? Aside from being raised in Illinois?
 
#3,931      
an entire reset on sewing fresh relationships on the recruiting trail

That hasn't been the problem. Cuonzo's first class was his best at both Tennessee and Cal.

The idea that it takes multiple years for recruiting to "warm up" is BS anyway.

I think the better argument is that Keadyball is a system that players get better in as they mature. There are counterarguments to that as well, but one thing to point out about Cuonzo is that he hasn't brought a wave of roster turnover anywhere he's been. This year's Cal team still has a number of Mike Montgomery's guys on it.

I would not anticipate mass Creaning with Cuonzo, which is appealing. You'd also figure there's a not insignificant chance Charlie Moore would transfer. It was also mentioned that there's a relationship between Cuonzo and Jamall Walker.

The fit is the appeal with Cuonzo. There's not really a "rebuild" there.
 
#3,932      
Serious question: Is there really any reason Martin would want to come to Illinois from Cal? Aside from being raised in Illinois?

It appears to be something of an open secret that he wants to come home. And with Illinois and Mizzou both opening, this is his opportunity. Both would pay him more than he makes at Cal.
 
#3,933      
I'm just not sold on Martin's ceiling against Keatts or Archie. I think the guy can obviously recruit well but is he a good enough game coach to get us to a perennial top 4 Big Ten team? I think he would be a decent hire if those first two guys turn us down I would be okay with him.

Would like to hold out for the higher ceiling and can't get excited over Martin. Don't want the average BIG coach. Want someone who is going to compete for conference championships most years. If we are going to take a risk than roll the dice for a winner. Assume it is less of a risk for someone who knows a lot more than I do.
 
#3,934      
I'll take any coach that can make Illinois relevant again. When we fired Weber I was in the boat of swing for the fences and get us someone that can win Big Ten Championships. Now I'm resigned to rooting for a hire that brings us to the point that we are no longer an embarrassment.
 
#3,935      
I bet my beach house that if we make the NIT, the Illini will participate with John Groce.

But I also bet my beach house that we're going to lose in the First Four. And I also bet my beach house that we're hiring Cuonzo Martin.

I better buy a couple more beach houses.

I can tell you with 100% confidence he will not coach in the NIT
 
#3,937      
I just want to watch good ball, I don't doubt that he could be a plus recruiter or an improvement over Groce (neither are difficult to achieve at ILL), but I want consistency in the regular season and to be competing for top 5 B10 finishes every year. I don't have a body of work from him that suggests that is something I can reasonably expect, which is why I'm hesitant. He's improved every stop, but he has also left as soon as he gets a good year in, just to explain my "don't have a body of work" comment.

The benefit with Cuonzo is we seem to know what he can achieve at lesser P5 gigs, whereas with Archie, Keatts, etc. we are working with mid-major resumes. That said, when I look at candidates, I want to see high level success at whatever stops they've been at, and Cuonzo doesn't really check that box for me.

What Keatts has done at UNCW is special. What Archie has achieved at Dayton is special. As such, I am a bigger believer in their upside than I am with Cuonzo.

By no means am I anti-Cuonzo, he just isn't my first choice. Part of what plays into that is that he has yet to have a stint at any of 3 jobs go longer than 3 years, which also hampers my ability to really see what he can do over a longer period. I am not at all worried about him leaving after a short period, just for the record, and I excuse Keatts on this point (1) because of his stay at Hargrave, and (2) because of the extent to which and the speed that he turned that UNCW program around -- that's his doing.

So to me, Cuonzo projects as likely having a higher floor, but a lower ceiling (competitive in the conference, less likely to win the conf, essentially). I'm not a big buyer on the NCAAT results deciding if we had a successful season -- seeding does that for me alongside conference finish. We're not at a stage as a program right now where I slave over or stay awake at night thinking about whether we won 0 or 2 games in a row in the tournament, so whether Keatts wins a NCAAT game this year or 3 or none doesn't do anything, his regular seasons have sold me. On the flip side, Cuonzo's sweet 16 run doesn't really do anything for me either.

All that said, I won't be upset if the hire is Cuonzo. The only scenario I'd really be upset with is if we don't make a change.


Wouldn't what Cuonzo did at Missouri State be considered "special" as well?
 
#3,940      
Unfortunately he does. It's not purely coincidence Martin is trying to get to know Mark Smith here and it's not to persuade him to come to cali.
Bold statement! I'm not so sure about that. He's recruiting an area he knows well, so it's not surprising that he's trying to land Smith for his current program.
 
#3,941      
He wasn't following up the mess Keatts was and his MO St. teams weren't nearly as good or for as long as Archie's Dayton teams.

He was only at MO St for 3 years so it would be impossible to have long term success. But he did finish first in the MVC which I would consider a much tougher conference than the CAA.

With all the winning Keatts has done how many P5 teams has he beaten in his career?
 
#3,942      
Why do people assume Cuonzo Martin will be a mediocre B1G coach?

I think they assume he'll be as good of an Illini coach as he has been a Tennessee and Cal coach. That's a marked upgrade over Groce, but it's not Lou Henson.

2. Why are people so excited about Keatts? Serious question, I just don't know much about him.

KenPom rankings for UNC Wilmington out of ~350 Division 1 teams

2012: 238
2013: 287
2014: 280

-Keatts gets hired-

2015: 174
2016: 83
2017: 59

Impacts like that are incredibly rare for any coach in any situation. For a 44 year old African American in his first head coaching job with a background as an assistant at an elite program (Lousiville) where he had a reputation as a top-notch recruiter, that's a unicorn. It's unheard-of.
 
#3,943      
With all the winning Keatts has done how many P5 teams has he beaten in his career?

Goose egg. In five tries. You want a wart, that's the wart.

I am more interested in how he performs in the thick of conference play when everyone has each other thoroughly scouted and you're going on the road to hostile venues. That's where coaching reveals itself.
 
#3,944      

mattcoldagelli

The Transfer Portal
I joined this conversation late, and I would appreciate if someone could fill me in the following board sentiments:

1. Why do people assume Cuonzo Martin will be a mediocre B1G coach? Looking purely at his coaching record, I noticed that he has improved his programs each year and has had solid success at non-traditional P5 programs.

I don't know, really. It seems to be a leap and an unfair one. He's been competitive in both the SEC and PAC-12 for the relatively short times he's been in both. And when you pluck a mid-major guy that's been steamrolling his conference for a couple years, that's what you're rationally hoping to be getting: someone who is consistently competitive.

2. Why are people so excited about Keatts? Serious question, I just don't know much about him.

Said steamrolling, plus he built a HS basketball machine at Hargraves in Virginia, worked under Pitino, and almost instantly turned UNC-Wilmington from a mess into a conference championship contender.
 
#3,946      
He wasn't following up the mess Keatts was and his MO St. teams weren't nearly as good or for as long as Archie's Dayton teams.

Going to college in Springfield, I know a lot of people down here miss Cuonzo and the success he had on the court. Lusk has had 1 winning season in since Cuonzo left.
 
#3,947      
Going to college in Springfield, I know a lot of people down here miss Cuonzo and the success he had on the court. Lusk has had 1 winning season in since Cuonzo left.
I'd be perfectly happy with Keatts, Cuonzo, or Archie. We're splitting hairs at this point.
 
#3,948      
Serious question: Is there really any reason Martin would want to come to Illinois from Cal? Aside from being raised in Illinois?

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned and believe was the case: Cuonzo Martin (and Juwan Howard, BTW) had indicated interest in attending illinois conditional on the severity of NCAA penalties back in 1990. We got hit hard so he went to Purdue instead. Maybe he looks at this as unfinished business, or coming home with an additional dimension.
 
#3,949      
Keatts is 7-11 against the top 100 the last three years, with one of those wins against a non-conference opponent (East Tennessee State). Not saying it's good or bad, that is just a stat for those thinking that somehow Wilmington is a beast now. He's done some really good things there in turning the program around. He's got some seniors on the team that will be graduating, so I'm sure he'd bolt if given the chance.
 
#3,950      

jmilt7

Waukegan
Beach houses! Beach houses! We don't need no stinkin' beach houses.
 
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