2017 Coaching Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#5,376      

ILLHangOut

I
ILLHangOut
Jkat00 said:
I don't like playing the "what if" game. What if Bill Self missed on Dee Brown and James Augustine? What if Tom Crean missed on Zeller and Yogi? WHAT IF John Groce landed Cliff Alexander and 1 of Snider/Evans/Brunson?
Click to expand...

Kajagoogoo said:
Bingo. He landed them. In my mind, that's what counts.
Click to expand...

CAHALL15 said:
He landed them and then didn't win a tournament game with them.

This season has made me much more intolerant of excuses for why a team hasn't won or reached their full potential. I'm much more interested in results. Yes, it is impressive that Martin landed two MCDAA, but this resulted in a first round exit against HAWAII which isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse.
Click to expand...

This is why I said "everything else equal". I'm not trying to speculate on what might have been different. I'm not even trying to prove a point. I am questioning whether people are attracted to the sole fact that he signed them; regardless of impact.

I'm curious to know what peoples' thoughts are if we removed that 5-star rating from 2 players' names. Would you still see him as the ideal hire?
 
#5,377      

Higher Ground

H
Higher Ground
Honest question. Is Coach recruiting as dirty as player recruiting? I mean it seems that through the years a large segment of our fan base(me included)has felt slighted by what is perceived to be a dirty player recruiting game. Could settling for a tier 2 lead man here be partially a result of the same type of dirt?
 
#5,378      

Jkat00

Jkat00
Champaign, IL
Jkat00
t7nich said:
Trent Frazier liked this tweet. No clue how valid it is..


mrmusicman‏ @SURFACEMUSICINC

Source close to colangelo is saying Monty Williams has been talking with JW. Probable Done Deal @jeremiahtilmon_ @_Trentfrazier1 #illini🔶🔷
Embedded
Click to expand...

Cool rumor.... but not true.
 
#5,379      

FollowTisdale

F
FollowTisdale
Higher Ground said:
Honest question. Is Coach recruiting as dirty as player recruiting? I mean it seems that through the years a large segment of our fan base(me included)has felt slighted by what is perceived to be a dirty player recruiting game. Could settling for a tier 2 lead man here be partially a result of the same type of dirt?
Click to expand...


The huge, glaring, enormous difference is all of the coach negotiations are above board... And it gets codified in a contract that both parties sign... And it's not only legal, but encouraged to offer better financial benefits...

They're nothing alike.
 
#5,380      

Higher Ground

H
Higher Ground
FollowTisdale said:
The huge, glaring, enormous difference is all of the coach negotiations are above board... And it gets codified in a contract that both parties sign... And it's not only legal, but encouraged to offer better financial benefits...

They're nothing alike.
Click to expand...

I understand all of the above board aspects of an offer from us and how the financial element of a contract is all published. I'm curious about the below board aspect that likely isn't advertised in a contract any more than in a scholly offer. Are the coaches who are getting burned for horseplay (ie Louisville) truly operating independent of the athletic department or are there looser interpretations from top to bottom making part of the job much more appealing to a high end guy like Pitino?
 
#5,381      

illiniknight

I
illiniknight
Golfer63 said:
Does Whitman pull the plug after the Rutgers game or does he wait until after the B1G tournament? I think the right move is to pull the plug after the Rutgers game. Reason why is because you have a senior class that has not made the tournament in their careers. It looks like there is no way they can win the B1G tournament with Groce on the sidelines so why not pull the plug after the Rutgers game. Maybe light enough of a fire under everyone's butt to inspire them to play really well and maybe make a run in the B1G tournament.
Click to expand...

After the tournament. I don't see a point in doing it before. Whichever assistant took over would run the same offense and defense. Not much you can change at this point. As far as lighting a fire under the team, if the possibility to make the NCAA tournament doesn't do that already, I don't think that firing Groce will do that.
 
#5,384      

rdillini

R
northbrook, il
rdillini
The strength coach is needed in my opinion to increase their ability to come up with loose balls and play hard defense for 40 minutes. If you look at the size of our players i don't see a lot of progression in strength. Yeah Malcolm looks stronger this year and Morgan developed some decent strength. I don't want body builders. I want strong and tough kids who can dig out the loose ball or grab the rebound. As for the assistant coach, that would be Whitman telling him that is essential and non-negotiable.

As for Groce's ability to develop players, i see the younger guys being the best players we have on the floor-besides Malcolm and they clearly have more talent and more athletic ability than of the other seniors and have greater upside and I have seen improvement in their games this year-at least those who are seeing playing time lately. that being said, there is no one on this team who can create his own shot with any consistency. That is on the coach for recruiting, but he hasn't caught many breaks along the way either. ( losing Snider on recruiting day is the most glaring) I don't want to come out and criticize any of the kids by name as I truly believe they all are trying and if they aren't they deserve to be on the bench, but college sports is hard and being a 3/4/5 star in high school doesn't guarantee you anything when they get to college. Those that shoot the eyes out in high school may find that the defender's ability to close on that same outside shot they nailed in high school is a lot tougher to get off inn college. And many kids don't pan out in college-not just at Illinois.
i think many on this board were highly critical of the coach after "swinging for the fences" and coming up second a lot. There are a lot of talented kids we have lost out on that haven't prospered even under the tutelage of Bill Self, for example. Again, no names, but i think you know who i am referring to. Finally, the argument that we are not going to be better because we didn't out-recruit someone for the player does not make a lot of sense unless you are going to rely solely upon the ranking system.
I am not giving Groce a pass on his tenure. That being said, there have been many on this board who love coaches one minute (BAM, JFG, Zooker who can sell sand in a desert) who turn and want something better only to realize that what comes along is no better and potentially worse. The old adage, be careful what you ask for may apply. If they make a change I will support Illinois because they are my school, but there is no guarantee that Monty Williams or anyone else will be the next John Wooden, Coach K or even Sean Miller.
 
#5,385      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
Really warming up to the idea of Montgomery Eli Williams being the new coach. He has Midwest ties (Big ten wise) Maryland/Notre Dame and Virginia along with some high level NBA stops, connections with Colangelo and USA basketball with Thibodeau and Coach K...

As far as "splash" hires, this would rank up there with Lovie Smith hiring....if only from a PR perspective....I think he would make a great recruiter, plus Walker could be left on staff as Williams would not have self made staff in place like a college coach coming on board....that should keep Tilmon/Frazier both for sure...
 
#5,386      

robertgoulet

robertgoulet
IL Board Resident Crooner
Austin, TX
robertgoulet
PlayAZ said:
Really warming up to the idea of Montgomery Eli Williams being the new coach. He has Midwest ties (Big ten wise) Maryland/Notre Dame and Virginia along with some high level NBA stops, connections with Colangelo and USA basketball with Thibodeau and Coach K...

As far as "splash" hires, this would rank up there with Lovie Smith hiring....if only from a PR perspective....I think he would make a great recruiter, plus Walker could be left on staff as Williams would not have self made staff in place like a college coach coming on board....that should keep Tilmon/Frazier both for sure...
Click to expand...

He's my #1 choice.
 
#5,387      

Bogey99

Bogey99
Bogey99
Tevo said:
Again: TWO NCAA appearances in eight years of head coaching P5 schools. It's not like Cuonzo is regularly making the tournament. Yes, more than Groce, but EVERYONE gets there more than Groce.

EDIT: Okay, I see this answer has been provided about nine times, so carry on.
Click to expand...

So, Missouri State is a P5 school now? :confused:

He's 2 of 5 as a head coach of mid-tier P5 teams, likely 3 of 6 after this year, which would be 3 of last 4. At least the trends are going in the right direction.
 
#5,388      

gecIllini

gecIllini
Colorado
gecIllini
So, we might as well throw Phil Jackson in to the search ring, NBA Coaching legend with nothing better to do... :thumb:
 
#5,389      

Kathy

K
Kathy
Just reported on TV here in Raleigh that NC State Coach Mark G. getting the axe.
 
#5,393      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
This along with others may force Whitman's hand....do we really want to be searching for a "program changing hire" when the likes of NC State, Indiana (probably), Minnesota, Missouri, any others may be looking as well?

Before anyone jumps up and says ILLINOIS is so much better than all of these, exception Indiana of course, remember where we were 10 years ago or so and where we are now...one could argue ONLY Indiana would be viewed by coaches as being hands down better now...

NC State = Miller
Missouri = Martin
Indiana could = a "big Splash Name" who knows if we would be looking at same people or not...
Minny = ?

I think Whitman will take this week and use to his advantage the 7 day layoff to put more emphasis on securing the next coach for us...it would not surprise me to see the hook yanked prior to end of the season, if the NC State type of thing is real and more continue to crop up as well...
 
#5,394      

helppitch

H
helppitch
Tevo said:
Again: TWO NCAA appearances in eight years of head coaching P5 schools. It's not like Cuonzo is regularly making the tournament. Yes, more than Groce, but EVERYONE gets there more than Groce.


He's only been a P5 coach 6 years. If he makes it this year, it will be3 in 6 years. That isn't good enough IMO, but we don't need to make things up.
Click to expand...
 
#5,395      

Sleepy Floyd

S
Kicking it with Fat Lever
Champaign
Sleepy Floyd
JoseyWales83 said:
Below is the link to that game and interesting excerpt below...

http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400871271&redirected=true

Jordan Mathews led California with 23 points, but the loss ended a week the Bears would rather forget. The Golden Bears' played without popular assistant coach Yann Hufnagel, dismissed amid allegations of sexual harassment, and leading scorer Tyrone Wallace, who broke his hand Wednesday in practice. As if the Bears (23-11) needed more obstacles, guard Jabari Bird had back spasms during warmups and never played.

Coach Cuonzo Martin said it was about 2 minutes before tip that he found out Bird was unavailable.

Considering the absences, California needed its healthy stars to be at their best and they failed. Jaylen Brown was a miserable 1-of-6 shooting, committed seven turnovers and fouled out with 6:22 left and the Bears trailing by eight. Ivan Rabb had a double-double with 13 points and 12 rebounds, but was hounded on the interior all game. The Bears were just 3 of 19 on 3-pointers, all coming from Mathews.

It could be the final game for Brown and Rabb if they decide to jump to the NBA and may bring more scrutiny to Martin's status considering the school is already reviewing his response to Hufnagel's situation.
"It was one thing to have Tyrone out, but we expected that, because he was injured," Martin said. "But two minutes before a game start time, it's tough. But you still have enough to win the game, so there's no excuses."
Click to expand...


there's the old list excuses before saying no excuses quote. We have seen that before.
 
#5,397      

Sleepy Floyd

S
Kicking it with Fat Lever
Champaign
Sleepy Floyd
PlayAZ said:
This along with others may force Whitman's hand....do we really want to be searching for a "program changing hire" when the likes of NC State, Indiana (probably), Minnesota, Missouri, any others may be looking as well?

Before anyone jumps up and says ILLINOIS is so much better than all of these, exception Indiana of course, remember where we were 10 years ago or so and where we are now...one could argue ONLY Indiana would be viewed by coaches as being hands down better now...

NC State = Miller
Missouri = Martin
Indiana could = a "big Splash Name" who knows if we would be looking at same people or not...
Minny = ?
yeah, there will always be openings on the market, I do not think are candidates will be the same as Indiana. If Whitman wants martin and loses him to Mizzou then he is not this savior of an AD everyone thinks he is.

I think Whitman will take this week and use to his advantage the 7 day layoff to put more emphasis on securing the next coach for us...it would not surprise me to see the hook yanked prior to end of the season, if the NC State type of thing is real and more continue to crop up as well...
Click to expand...
Whiitman should make a change because it is time to. He should not worry about Indiana because the will not poach someone from our pool. if can't sell Cunizo that are program is better than Mizzou then we are in trouble. Minny hire went horribly last time i am unconcerned by them.
 
#5,398      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
PlayAZ said:
This along with others may force Whitman's hand....do we really want to be searching for a "program changing hire" when the likes of NC State, Indiana (probably), Minnesota, Missouri, any others may be looking as well?

Before anyone jumps up and says ILLINOIS is so much better than all of these, exception Indiana of course, remember where we were 10 years ago or so and where we are now...one could argue ONLY Indiana would be viewed by coaches as being hands down better now...

NC State = Miller
Missouri = Martin
Indiana could = a "big Splash Name" who knows if we would be looking at same people or not...
Minny = ?

I think Whitman will take this week and use to his advantage the 7 day layoff to put more emphasis on securing the next coach for us...it would not surprise me to see the hook yanked prior to end of the season, if the NC State type of thing is real and more continue to crop up as well...
Click to expand...

Minnesota has a young coach who will be making their first NCAA appearance in a while. They are all set.
 
#5,399      

SescIllini

SescIllini
SescIllini
Unless you guys want the losing coaches to be mute they are going to state the obvious. If they have significant players missing what are they supposed to say? If they say that it doesn't matter if they lose their two best players then it sounds like "coach speak". Indiana is hurting, they are not the same team they were earlier.

Regarding coaches I would take Monty Williams. Thought he would of been a good choice if Groce was let go last year. Kind of leaning towards C Martin, our players need a boot in the arse and he will gladly provide it. Also I think he gets us to the tourney the fastest.
 
#5,400      

MItrump

MItrump
MItrump
Personally I like Williams as well!

Not sure if this has been stated yet: but through multiple sources I've found that Martin allegedly has dabbled in getting his hands dirty. Whitman has been lenient through this process obviously because he respects Groce and that he knows Martin and his past with this stuff. So it's an interesting situation and will be interesting to see how this plays out
 
Status
Not open for further replies.