Whitman sees it, that's all that matters.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Whitman sees it, that's all that matters.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
You have go all the way back to 2010 to find class ranked as high as this one. Of course it didn't turn out that well...
Agree. I don't think it's guaranteed that jg is gone. It's probably 50 / 50 JW knows that jg has had sufficient time and has not performed. And that program, fans, players all need a boost, and if finds a new coach that fits that bill, he'll hire him. Recruits coming in or not. But, poster is right to say that a top ten recruiting class after the last ten years of Il basketball, is a big deal. So if the only coaches available for this next season are not in JW's top five, I believe he'll stick with JG.
midastouch11
- New York, New York
The class of 2017, as currently constructed, has one player in the RSCI top 100. Let's be real when talking about this class.
PhillyIllini
- Los Angeles
lol, I think people tend to overweight the impact of Tilmon and everyone (including myself) is guilty of thinking Frazier is getting the short end of the stick when it comes to where he's ranked. I do believe he'll outperform his composite. but yes, your point is noted and probably accurate.
Frazier in most rankings is around 100 and I think better than that. Tillmon is a 5 star big and a difference maker. Mark Smith is top 100 and we could still get him, it's a good class and strong at the two most important positions.
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Throw rankings aside, and you can easily see this is Groce's best class. An athletic rim protector, a speedy scoring guard, a lengthy athletic combo guard, and another lengthy scorer. But the first 2 are most important and something Groce has never had together here.
I'm not confident Groce can do anything with the guys coming in, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did. But I don't think he is going to get that opportunity.
I really, really think that a lot of the people saying maybe Groce should get another year were born after 1990 and/or didn't become fans until at least late last decade. WE ARE ILLINOIS BASKETBALL! We're a top-15 all-time program. From the mid 1980s to the mid '00s we were one of the 8-10 most prestigious and successful teams in America. My entire life, from 1981 until a few years after I graduated from UIUC in '04, we were nationally relevant every season. 3 out of every 4 years we were ranked and a single-digit tournament seed. A Sweet 16 appearance was merely an okay year. We were in a group of programs just below the blue bloods--along with Arizona, Syracuse, Michigan State, et al--expected to compete for Elite 8 berths just about every year. We had the nation's longest home winning streak at one point. We were a borderline dominant team for the better part of two decades.
It's one thing to see the records and statistics on paper, but those of us who grew up with the Flying Illini and Lon and Self's teams feel the expectation of greatness in our bones. We should be in the tournament 8-9 out of 10 years. We should compete for Big Ten championships and Final Fours. We should pull in top-20 recruiting classes almost every year. Illinois basketball is a storied program. The fact that many fans have been throttled into accepting mediocrity is maddening. The fact that we're alternately a joke and an afterthought in the national conversation feels like some kind of alternate universe.
I like and respect Groce as a man, but he's gone as soon as the season ends and rightfully so. I feel confident that Josh Whitman has the same expectations for the program as I do: we should be invincible at home, in the tournament constantly, and in the national media cycle on a weekly basis during the season. People should talk about us like they talk about Arizona. That's where we come from. That's where we belong.
It's one thing to see the records and statistics on paper, but those of us who grew up with the Flying Illini and Lon and Self's teams feel the expectation of greatness in our bones. We should be in the tournament 8-9 out of 10 years. We should compete for Big Ten championships and Final Fours. We should pull in top-20 recruiting classes almost every year. Illinois basketball is a storied program. The fact that many fans have been throttled into accepting mediocrity is maddening. The fact that we're alternately a joke and an afterthought in the national conversation feels like some kind of alternate universe.
I like and respect Groce as a man, but he's gone as soon as the season ends and rightfully so. I feel confident that Josh Whitman has the same expectations for the program as I do: we should be invincible at home, in the tournament constantly, and in the national media cycle on a weekly basis during the season. People should talk about us like they talk about Arizona. That's where we come from. That's where we belong.
Dog, you should run for office.
This was spoken with conviction and force. Made me want to raise my right fist in the air.
Preach on,brother-man
In fact, this should be at the top of every page so when people get on The Carousel they see this. Every time.
I shared the same sentiments about two months ago. But it has now become painfully clear that this staff collectively can't compete with top 50-75 coaching. I have seen enough bb this year to say we have some deficits but overall our talent isn't best utilized.
In life we are put in situations where we need to execute to perfection, there is no alternative. Whitman has to do this now, as others have stated kicking the can down the road is not an option. So Whitman will hire option 1, 1a, or 1b.
Even "worst recruiter ever" Bruce Weber brought in 3 comparable classes to what we have coming in next year. We should basically be bringing in a top 15/20 class 3 of every 4 years. Class like like next year's should be the expectation and not one put on a pedestal.
Sleepy Floyd
Kicking it with Fat Lever
- Champaign
Neither Groce nor Weber recruited to system. Groce needed a dynamic pg he might have one but it is 3 years too late. Weber didn't recruit enough shooters with JH. I would value coaching over recruiting because I think the recruiting floor is high I'm not sure if the celling is such that you can have subpar coach.
DReq
Always Illini
- Central Illinois
+100 (roughly the number of years I have been an Illini fan)
Amen, FatGreg. Let's get out there and be The Illini!
AMEN BROTHER! I was on campus 73-79 and the game we beat MSU and Magic Johnson, Greg Kelser, et al was such an incredible moment and clearly a turning point for Illinois basketball (even though the rest of the season didn't feel like it). From then on people were worried about playing Illinois not licking their chops when we came up on the schedule.
I'm tired of being a doormat and watching every game hoping that we don't get slaughtered instead of looking forward to watching exciting winning basketball. The last ten years of Illinois basketball have been the worst non sanctioned ten years in the programs history! What does it take for people to accept that a change needs to be made?
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Pete Thamel of SI weighs in on NCSU and the overall coaching carousel that is forming this season:
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No way, man. That age bracket either has apathetic fans due to lack of success in the program from HS and on, or people who want Groce out for ruining their undergrad. The former group isn't going to be posting on IL. There's a group in that age bracket as well that grew up as die-hards, and the vast majority of die-hards want him out as well.
The only remaining "maybe one more year" guys are just a distant minority from all over the place.
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Wow, Underwood is only making 1 mil? :gossip:
This brings up another thing on my mind the last few years when it comes to our recruiting. Now don't get me wrong I have had enough of Groce and his style of basketball coaching. And I will take talent over coaching when it comes down to making a good team. I believe Izzo said a good team is 75 percent talent and 25 percent coaching. But I have seen several top players the last few years that these 2 coaches went after that would have made a big difference to this team that right to the end decided to go else where. But why? Is it politics? Is it just plain dislike for Illinois? This inability to land some of these top recruits even the ones in our home state has to be addressed.
I guess I don't understand all of the back and forth and absolute statements on here.
In terms of our coaching situation there are several facts present:
1. Groce has significantly under-performed during his tenure
2. Groce has an above average class of recruits coming in next year
3. There is a level of apathy among the fan base
4. Whitman has a list of candidates that would be good hires
Whitman knows all of these facts, he is a bright guy. That being said this is not a binary decision, these are all variables that go into the equation of what to do next. Groce has under-performed and there is an apathy in the fan-base, but if you know that you are going to lose the key parts of the class and not hire someone on your list, do you make the move? On the flip-side if you can secure the class and get someone high on your list, do you pull the trigger then? Very different scenarios to me, none of which any of us know the answer to.
I guess my point is that this is not a binary decision. As angry and as apathetic as i am with the state of the program, I understand there are variables at play. My best guess says that Whitman is both able to find a decent coach and through back channeling find one that he feels good will keep a good chunk of the class intact, and that's what happens. So to me if Groce is fired its a good sign because this is all in place. In the unlikely scenario Whitman can't find a decent coach then he is not going to torpedo the whole class and set up back by hiring someone unproven.
I think and hope he is gone, there is a solid replacement, and the class comes in whole. That being said there are variables in play here and extreme statements don't seem to make much sense to me as I know that's not how Whitman is looking at it.
Just my $.02
In terms of our coaching situation there are several facts present:
1. Groce has significantly under-performed during his tenure
2. Groce has an above average class of recruits coming in next year
3. There is a level of apathy among the fan base
4. Whitman has a list of candidates that would be good hires
Whitman knows all of these facts, he is a bright guy. That being said this is not a binary decision, these are all variables that go into the equation of what to do next. Groce has under-performed and there is an apathy in the fan-base, but if you know that you are going to lose the key parts of the class and not hire someone on your list, do you make the move? On the flip-side if you can secure the class and get someone high on your list, do you pull the trigger then? Very different scenarios to me, none of which any of us know the answer to.
I guess my point is that this is not a binary decision. As angry and as apathetic as i am with the state of the program, I understand there are variables at play. My best guess says that Whitman is both able to find a decent coach and through back channeling find one that he feels good will keep a good chunk of the class intact, and that's what happens. So to me if Groce is fired its a good sign because this is all in place. In the unlikely scenario Whitman can't find a decent coach then he is not going to torpedo the whole class and set up back by hiring someone unproven.
I think and hope he is gone, there is a solid replacement, and the class comes in whole. That being said there are variables in play here and extreme statements don't seem to make much sense to me as I know that's not how Whitman is looking at it.
Just my $.02
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
PREACH! Obviously with each year we are bad, our "all-time stats" (which are still REALLY impressive) will get a little worse compared to our competition, so this isn't just an exercise of going on Sports Reference, folks. You have to dig deep and try to remember where this program TRULY was and where it truly can be again. For me, growing up an Illini fan in Iowa City and having my formative sports years be 2001-2007, that's mighty easy. That was my reality. I didn't have Harv Schmidt in my head or memories of the sanctions, I only knew what Illinois basketball was then. I know a lot of people will say, "Oh, well those were the glory years!" Were they? I think they were a return to the NEW, post-Henson norm. We can do it. We have two decades (most of the '80s and '98-'07) as proof. The potential is bursting at the seams here, and it's sad when opposing fan bases know it more than some of our own fans do.
No number of bad seasons can EVER erase the hard evidence of what this program can achieve with the right coach; let's go get the right coach and return to a proud history.
Actually it is a binary decision. There are only 2 options. Keep Groce or fire Groce. Nothing else matters. We will not lose our entire recruiting class. Even if we lose Tilmon, Groce needs to go. To put Tilmon into perspective, Mav Morgan is averaging 10 and 4. If Tilmon provided the same stats, that would be a GREAT freshman season.
John Groce is a terrible basketball coach and has proven it over the last 5 years. Therefore, he must be fired and replaced.
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Why would they fire him for one bad year? NC State has made it to the dance the last 4 out of 5 years . They'll miss it this year, but he can recruit, he obviously can coach, so I don't get it. The Tarheels beat them badly in both meetings this year, but that doesn't warrant termination, IMO.
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