... And you know this "how?"
2017 Coaching Carousel
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... And you know this "how?"
sacraig
- The desert
I'd have to agree with you. On the business/branding side of things, I really liked the direction Thomas was headed. Ultimately, where he failed was in the two most important functions of his job, which are hiring coaches and selling the program to donors. That's probably because he apparently just wasn't a very personable guy and had a management style that didn't really help him out when trying to convince good coaches to come over.
It kind of makes you wonder how he succeeded at Cincinnati.
He either kissed the right people's behinds and/or they accepted his behaviour because he got results. As far as coaches go they probably put up with it until they could find a better job. BKelly probably got a speeding ticket for leaving Cinci so fast.....
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
I have no info, but I have a feeling that this is true. Also, I am reasonably confident that he could keep the class intact. Just a gut feeling. I know, that and $7 can get me a grande at Starbucks.
I'm not comparing HS to college, but winning games at the HS level at the rate he did still requires you to be a capable coach, so I personally feel that is relevant when evaluating talent as a coach. You may feel differently, that's your prerogative.
Groce's entire resume was built on one lucky sweet 16 run. His best conference finish at Ohio was 3rd, and his conference winning % in the MAC was .531. That's atrocious. Keatts has won 66 games in under 3 years at UNCW, and has a .745 conference winning percentage. He's also on track for his 3rd straight conference title.
I quoted single game ATS as evidence he was competitive in the tournament with CAA level players against an E8 squad, because someone said it wasn't likely he could win tournament games (or that it was unlikely). I did not say that he should be hired simply because he lost to Duke by less than Vegas thought. This is the part of the comment that ATS point was in reference to:
Nothing in that quote is inherently out of line, but implying he can't be competitive with a CAA squad in the NCAAT is not accurate, as he just was last year.
Regarding whether or not he needs to coach at a mid-major (I assume that's what you mean by 'higher-level') before coming to Illinois, that is an entirely fair opinion, but I think he will be coaching in the P5 next year at Illinois, or at one of the other open gigs. Also, if we're being honest, it's entirely possible he could turn us down for an East Coast gig due to his ties there. Regardless, he'll be one of the hot candidates on the carousel this offseason.
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No, I understand, I just wanted to indicate that he can be competitive in the NCAAT even at UNCW (it will be tough for reasons previously mentioned).
I don't see how we can assume he will be roasted by B1G coaches. That has yet to be seen, he hasn't ever even coached against one as a HC. He was clearly competitive against Coach K who is a hall-of-fame level coach. And yes, before you counter with this, I know he lost to Clemson this year, but that points to 'unknown' moreso than 'he can't handle this level', especially when accounting for talent differential. What has he done to show us he can't coach against B10 level coaches?
I fully understand the "he's a risk" sentiment, but every coach has some risk attached (except Tony Bennett, he'd be a grand slam as mentioned, but that's not happening anyways). Every good coach has to start somewhere.
Here's a question for people: what non-P5 leagues are good enough where you feel a coach could jump from that league to the B10 without it being a MAJOR risk?
I think people need to realize that the Illinois job now is a better job than it was five years ago. When Groce was hired.
The institutional chaos that reigned at the top eschelons of the University is over. We have a chancellor and president and have been scandal-free for a reasonable period of time.
We have a young, up-and-comer as AD who is popular and seems to have a ton of job security. He's already made a big splash hire in football. Everyone who meets him comes away impressed.
The basketball facilities have just completed renovation.
The BTN money is just getting bigger and bigger.
Unlike at the end of the Weber era, the fanbase is generally united in their apathy. There's none of the rancor that existed at the end of Weber's tenure. Any new hire can be pretty sure that all the fans will be behind him.
Nobody outside the program will be scratching their heads at the firing. No one like Tom Izzo is going to be standing up and criticizing the firing of the previous head coach. No one is going to claim the new AD didn't give Groce a chance.
What may have been out-sized fan expectations after 04-05 have been reset to Illinois' more traditional mindset of wanting conference championships and Sweet Sixteens with the occasional Final Four run.
The institutional chaos that reigned at the top eschelons of the University is over. We have a chancellor and president and have been scandal-free for a reasonable period of time.
We have a young, up-and-comer as AD who is popular and seems to have a ton of job security. He's already made a big splash hire in football. Everyone who meets him comes away impressed.
The basketball facilities have just completed renovation.
The BTN money is just getting bigger and bigger.
Unlike at the end of the Weber era, the fanbase is generally united in their apathy. There's none of the rancor that existed at the end of Weber's tenure. Any new hire can be pretty sure that all the fans will be behind him.
Nobody outside the program will be scratching their heads at the firing. No one like Tom Izzo is going to be standing up and criticizing the firing of the previous head coach. No one is going to claim the new AD didn't give Groce a chance.
What may have been out-sized fan expectations after 04-05 have been reset to Illinois' more traditional mindset of wanting conference championships and Sweet Sixteens with the occasional Final Four run.
The Worm
- CHICAGO, IL
Totally agree. Everything is in place to hit a home run with this hire, and I believe JW will do just that.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Yes, you are correct in that Collins was the lead recruiter and was largely responsible for the Chicago pipeline we had going at that time. He was also a player under Henson at New Mexico State when Henson took them to the Final Four.
I think many CPL coaches were upset when Henson retired and Collins wasn't named as his successor. That hurt Kruger's ability to recruit Chicago and may still be a factor to this day.
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I think many CPL coaches were upset when Henson retired and Collins wasn't named as his successor. That hurt Kruger's ability to recruit Chicago and may still be a factor to this day.
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Right, and I think the top 3 lines there is probably going to be the only consensus, if I had to guess (I would agree). I just wanted to pose the question for the sake of comparing the CAA in numbers, because I think -- and by no means am I saying the CAA is good -- that the CAA is being viewed as a distant, terrible conference like the Big Sky, who also get an autobid and only one tournament team a year, when it's not nearly as low as that in the pecking order.
Here's all the tier 3/4 conferences you listed, with the KenPom rating of every member this year. Please note that I acknowledge that this is not a perfect measure or anything like that, just want to provide a picture.
CAA:
57 (UNCW), 94, 127, 130, 132, 138, 189, 229, 234, 289
Median: 135
A-10:
33, 46, 56, 89, 92, 106, 109, 121, 144, 148, 156, 200, 209, 292
Median: 115
AAC:
18, 22, 38, 73, 85, 90, 110, 134, 205, 259, 288
Median: 90
MVC:
13, 47, 101, 129, 139, 141, 166, 201, 246, 248
Median: 140
WCC:
1, 17, 79, 111, 128, 177, 257, 260, 276, 283
Median: 152.5
Mountain West:
66, 74, 93, 95, 113, 122, 155, 161, 194, 218, 233
Median: 122
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
Unfortunately, Collins was the center of blazer, I mean, pizzagate. Henson defended him to the end. Hiring him would have kept the pipeline open, but also the NCAA over our shoulder. At least, that is my perspective. Many on here know and remember much more than I.
Man, no kidding. I want the hope/optimism back and the slog feeling gone. That's what this all boils down to for me, regardless of hire.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Keats to NC State? Makes sense considering he's already working in the area, but its probably not what their fans want.
Couple more details on this that perhaps some others can fact-check.
Tony Yates actually got the pipeline going with Levi Cobb and Eddie Johnson. Levi Cobb was the best player in Chicago at the time and Eddie Johnson was a McDonald's AA type recruit. Collins took over and did even better. He was deeply embedded in the community. He knew everybody. I believe he had worked as a probation officer and still lived up there part-time. His relationship with several players was just like the Tilmon-Walker relationship - they came because of him. We've never had anybody else like him. When you hear someone like Joe Henricksen talking about relationships and understanding Chicago, he's talking about someone like Jimmy Collins. As for the cheating, who knows what was really going on.
Yes, please. If there's any way we could get a coach that has taken two different programs to the Final 4, an active coach with Top 10 in all time wins, Conference Championships, Elite 8's, Sweet Sixteen's. Sign me up. Lou was a heck of a coach in a much tougher Big10.
No coach is perfect, but Lou did fantastic things for Illinois Basketball. He is a Hall of Fame Coach. I'd take a young Lou Henson any day and twice on Sundays!
I think that is a very good guess at this point.
I think Cuonzo could be real good, especially recruiting, any idea how good his staff is? I think if he had someone with him that had Head coaching experience I could real excited. I like him but my biggest concern is I think they have underachieved a bit relative to talent but if he had good assistants with him I could get excited. I think the overall staff has hurt Groce and I hope no matter who the coach is that the rest of the staff is top notch
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
I could see Cronin leaving Cincinnati but it won't be for Illinois. Not a very good fit.
Based on what? Who are the "many outside this board"?
I'm honestly curious, because besides the celebration of Jim Valvano I have never heard NC State discussed as more than a regional draw.
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
It's really not a secret that Cuonzo wants out of Berkley and back in the Midwest area. With tons of jobs opening up it's pretty much expected he will land one of them. He's absolutely recruiting Smith and watching others without contact for his next job. Very smart IMO.
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
PM me I cannot say why here
And we are more than a regional draw? There's not many schools that can claim 2 NCAA championships. So even if you don't count the last one with Jimmy, they still have more than us. They just fired a coach who made the NCAA 4 of 6 years. When is the last time we had a recruit as high as Smith? Yeah, they have a Duke/UNC problem, but regionally at least they have a very strong brand. My point is we on this board tend to over rate our brand & I think you head somewhere neutral like outside of B1G/ACC, IMO I doubt the casual observer sees us above NCSU. Those pictures of Valvano celebrations & ESPY speech are part of the reason
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Over/under is set at 82 different people "pm"ing you.
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