2017 Coaching Carousel

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#7,376      
champaignchris
Rafale said:
If Groce coaches another year in Champaign, we will be having virtually the same discussion next year at this time.
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This. You can't bring Groce back on a "make the Tourney or else" basis next year. They're not going to make the Tourney. Whitman is smart enough to know that.

So the choice is at least two more seasons of Groce or bring in a new coach. And at this point, I just don't see the evidence that Groce can do it after he gets another couple cycles of recruits in here.
 
#7,377      
Deleted member 626650
cam said:
Glad you were amused. Can anyone mention a good Illinois team ever with poor point guard play? I don't think there has been one and that has been the problem and as I have said repeatedly it has now been fixed.
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I hate to keep singling your posts out, but a 4 game winning streak against middling competition hardly means that the problem has been fixed.
 
#7,378      
STLINI
cam said:
Glad you were amused. Can anyone mention a good Illinois team ever with poor point guard play? I don't think there has been one and that has been the problem and as I have said repeatedly it has now been fixed.
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Apparently our head coach didn't realize that it was necessary, because we all could see it long before Groce could that Lucas needed to be playing more.
 
#7,379      
3 point girl
What about Jack Sikma? Midwest ties, should have been in the Hall Of Fame years ago, and has been coaching in the NBA as an asst coach for 11 years. Had sons that played in the AAU circuit so connections there as well as a current coach for the Toronto Raptors working with their big men. Played with Krystowiak in Milwaukee. Hasnt had any interest in college coaching but available.
 
#7,380      
ILHoff
STLINI said:
Apparently our head coach didn't realize that it was necessary, because we all could see it long before Groce could that Lucas needed to be playing more.
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Seeing that we're a much better team with Lucas in the lineup, you have to wonder if we would have won a couple of our close losses. That might have put us in the tournament. Talk about sinking your own ship.
 
#7,381      
skyIdub
That mini streak means absolutely squadoosh when you go to the last place team and fart and fall down.

That point guard play means absolutely squadoosh when you go to the last place team and that point guard farts and falls down.

I'm tired of five years straight watching this team fart and fall down. Early, late, middle, end, beginning....etc. I've seen enough.

I was precariously perched upon the Groce platform prior to this season preaching patience and perseverance. I am now pining for a new coach who is positively prepared for a purposeful path to perennial post season projections.
Peace out JG. :illinois:

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#7,382      
RedRocksIllini
skyIdub said:
That mini streak means absolutely squadoosh when you go to the last place team and fart and fall down.

That point guard play means absolutely squadoosh when you go to the last place team and that point guard farts and falls down.

I'm tired of five years straight watching this team fart and fall down. Early, late, middle, end, beginning....etc. I've seen enough.

I was precariously perched upon the Groce platform prior to this season preaching patience and perseverance. I am now pining for a new coach who is positively prepared for a purposeful path to perennial post season projections.
Peace out JG. :illinois:
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But, but he has it all figured out. Haven't you heard?
 
#7,383      
PlayAZ
zpfled said:
Honest question, did anyone here have Lovie on their list before the hire?
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I Did not, but that only helps it make it a GRAND SLAM of a hire...most people when they heard the name, I would bet said to themselves, no way we got Lovie Smith...we might be good?
 
#7,384      
mattcoldagelli
My way of fighting back against the current malaise of this thread is to remind you that the KEATTS HYPE TRAIN has one more scheduled stop before the Dance, and it is the CAA title game tonight at 6 CT (CBSSN) against College of Charleston.
 
#7,385      
champaignchris
zpfled said:
Honest question, did anyone here have Lovie on their list before the hire?
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Remember the timeline. Whitman fired whatsisface and hired Lovie in his first 24 hours on the job. Nobody really had time to put together their coaching candidate list before it was a done deal.
 
#7,386      
cam
Buckets4days said:
I hate to keep singling your posts out, but a 4 game winning streak against middling competition hardly means that the problem has been fixed.
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I was referring to the poor point guard play. Lucas is very good especially on defense and the PG recruits are very good with Frazier and possibly Smith
 
#7,388      
zpfled
I wonder if new coach puts DJ Williams to good use, or if he's transferring regardless of who the coach is
 
#7,389      
Centennial Illini
Gillini,

The point you make is very valid on a certain scale. I could be wrong but I don't think you are paying your managers 7 figures.

If you are. private message me and I will come out of retirement.

If JW makes a move that ends up being just lateral, we will be on the hook for that coach and the last 2-3 of JG. We are talking low low 8 figures in all.

This hire, if it comes to pass, really needs to be a solid step upward. I would love a home run but we really need to get at least a double.

The good news is that we are in a basketball rich area, have excellent facilities, The Big which is like a large cash cow, and other advantages which makes this an attractive job.

Why did Lute Olson leave Iowa 2 years after a final 4 appearance for a totally (in 1982) insignificant Arizona team, because it only takes a good center and a good point guard to go from 11-19 to 19-11.

Another reason was the Iowa fan base drove him crazy and that was well known.
 
#7,390      
IlliniOllie
cam said:
Glad you were amused. Can anyone mention a good Illinois team ever with poor point guard play? I don't think there has been one and that has been the problem and as I have said repeatedly it has now been fixed.
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Look, I love a lot of what I've seen from Te'Jon's play so far, but there's a long way to go and a lot to see from him and (maybe) Frazier before the PG position can be declared "fixed".

There's potential there, and he certainly shows flashes, but everything looks like a meal to a starving man, and we had been starving for a B1G level point guard for a while. I'll need to see a little more before I know that it has been fixed.
 
#7,391      
PlayAZ
zpfled said:
This is why I still don't mind the idea of Groce staying. It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes. I don't really care who our coach is as long as he can bring in the players. I just really can't bear the thought of more botched recruiting years. Weber had a few, Groce had a really weak one in 2014 (although Finke and Black are a lot better than the 2006, 2008 or 2012 classes!). 2015 is looking pretty bad too, outside of JCL---although it seemed good at the time.

Groce finally has a class with stars at the 1 and 5, and a lot of downstate talent coming up in the next couple of years. I don't really care who our next coach is as long as he can get those guys. That's going to matter a lot more than anything else a coach does, IMO
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If Groce can land them....A NAME coach who is proven WILL keep them...Groce has no reason to be retained. No recruit is that valuable...most think they are.
 
#7,392      
Obelix
PlayAZ said:
If Groce can land them....A NAME coach who is proven WILL keep them...Groce has no reason to be retained. No recruit is that valuable...most think they are.
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Same point again. If schools and ADs could guarantee A NAME coach (as you say) before they would fire a coach, every other school would have done the same. Especially schools with more resources, boosters, money, and networking connections. Nobody would have risked. C'mon...
 
#7,393      
Deleted member 626650
cam said:
I was referring to the poor point guard play. Lucas is very good especially on defense and the PG recruits are very good with Frazier and possibly Smith
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Lucas was an improvement at PG, not a revelation. The jury is still out on what Frazier will be, and even moreso fir Smith. That's hoping and dreaming on recruits ability. Not having facts saying that the position will undeniably be better going forward.
 
#7,394      
zpfled
PlayAZ said:
If Groce can land them....A NAME coach who is proven WILL keep them...Groce has no reason to be retained. No recruit is that valuable...most think they are.
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Not sure what you mean exactly by a NAME coach. All I'm saying is a care more about getting recruits than having a guy who can do Xs and Os well.

I imagine Cuonzo could slide in and get Smith, Liddell. I'm still interested in him.

Color me uninterested in getting a guy who will require a couple of years to get rolling with recruiting. I'd rather stick with Groce than rebuild, because I think quality PG play will get us back to tourney pretty quickly, and Lucas, Frazier, and Smith would be enough to do it.
 
#7,395      
Goldtop
PlayAZ said:
If Groce can land them....A NAME coach who is proven WILL keep them...Groce has no reason to be retained. No recruit is that valuable...most think they are.
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"Grace has no reason to be retained"? I'll give you one, and it is in your own post. If Whitman doesn't feel confident that he can get a "NAME" coach who will keep the recruits currently interested in our program. There may be more risk to the long term health of the program letting Groce go than keeping him.
 
#7,396      
Calvin
Centennial Illini said:
Weak athletic directors will give in to fan bases.
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Ok, so Whitman won't listen to the fans. Noted. He's still quite capable of making a bad decision or a good one.

When Groce came here, he won everyone over. He gives a good press conference, he sounds intense and focused, and he knows how to sell himself and Illinois. He's an all around likable guy. He also happened to win quite a few games his first season.

Since then, things have gone quite poorly for an extended period. Enter JW. He gets to know JG and seems to like him a lot. By any account, Groce is on the hot seat. By the most logical measurement, he fails to perform, and at this point, it's not hard for fans who've been watching him for a number of years to connect the coach and the team's performance. Attendance is dropping. Fans that are still here are on balance, less engaged, and some may not come back ever.

So we continue to speculate, and hope for a change in results. And the clock is ticking on Mr. Whitman. He's going to have to announce something one way or the other after the season.
 
#7,397      
Illiniwek06
cam said:
Can anyone mention a good Illinois team ever with poor point guard play? I don't think there has been one and that has been the problem and as I have said repeatedly it has now been fixed.
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Can anyone mention a good Illinois team ever with John Groce as HC? I don't think there has been one and that has been the problem and as I have said repeatedly it will never be fixed.
 
#7,398      
RickBB
I find myself looking at this thread in particular with a feeling of uneasiness. I feel sick "hoping" for the Illini to lose and bring in a new coach, because I'm just a fan. I'm not a donor, hell, I'm not even an Alum, but I've been a fan since I was a kid. An ideal world for me right now is we make a run and somehow make the tournament so Malcolm and the rest of the seniors get to experience the tournament. Whitman knows Groce isn't the answer no matter the miracle run, and gives him to option to do resign because its a result oriented position and he knows he hasn't gotten it done to save face and the already lined up home run hire replacement is announced the next day. The recruiting class is wowed, if it hasn't already been communicated to them, they stay in tact, and Mark Smith announces within the week.

I'm fortunate to say that I'm a former D1, Mid Major baseball player whose team as a senior got to a winner goes to the tournament game and we lost. My class has the 2nd most wins as a class in my school history, but making the tournament would have meant everything to us and our legacy...and believe me, those things matter to the kids on the team.

Unfortunately, Malcolm should have had a Roger Powell type of career. Been on a team with a couple guys who were more talented, more athletic....it wouldn't change who he was. He'd still be a fringe NBA guy, long time Euro guy if he chose, loved by the fans, and most importantly, been on teams which made the tournament comfortably his entire career. Sure, he wouldn't be as high on the career scoring list, but we wouldn't be thinking of way to get him his only NCAA appearance and having most of us wish it didn't happen because then Groce is retained.
 
#7,399      
illinois_hustle
MadSeason said:
Jank?

Worse than Groce imo. Only year he has done well is with Larry Brown recruits. The rest of his career is less than inspiring
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That's the only year he's had period so don't quite get your point. The best way for me to assess a coach (not a recruiter) is how the team plays. SMU plays exactly how I want the Illini to play. I think he's a very good coach and his players love him.

My question for Jankovich is whether he can recruit. Certainly not as good as Brown was there, but jury out. If they can make a run in the NCAAs, that will help as many will see how much fun these guys are having playing this style of ball.

With SMU's limited number of scholarships currently, he might be enticed, but I doubt it given he was SMU's "coach-in-waiting" for the Brown years.
 
#7,400      
Calvin
Centennial Illini said:
Gillini,

If JW makes a move that ends up being just lateral, we will be on the hook for that coach and the last 2-3 of JG. We are talking low low 8 figures in all.
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Ok, you'll come out of retirement for a million a year. Good info. I don't really trust your math skills though. We're not going to go without a coach, so treating it like an incremental $10 million doesn't come across well. Heck, we could hire a promising up and comer for LESS than Groce is making. We also know how much it costs to buy him out, and it's peanuts by high major coaching standards. We also know we're on the hook for half a mil if we retain him, plus any additional extension, which is typical (though not certain,) to assure recruits they're commitment is made in good faith of their relationship with the coach.

If you have a high opinion of JW and/or JG, that's fine, and perhaps you have some reason to feel confident in them. I just think the facts are the facts here.
 
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