2017 St. Louis Cardinals

hermie1985 · Jul 3, 2017

the national said:
I honestly think Mo is pretty good at his job. I think Matheny was a good player and teammate but he doesnt know how to lead the team as a manager. He still wants to be liked by his guys as if he were still a player, "one of the guys". He's loyal to them to a fault. He needs to put on his big boy pants and start managing. If he cant do it, then lets find someone who can. Right now hes our biggest obstacle to overcome. JMO.

And yet we're still waiting on a power hitter from the "we got money to spend" management.

I don't think Matheny was the obvious (or right) choice but that is on management too. Matheny won't last without a second half turn around.

I do like some of the young players coming up lately. I'll have to give management credit. I guess it's hard to come up when the players we had were perennially in contention.

ratdawg · Jul 3, 2017

blmillini said:
We are most definitely spoiled. I really felt like Jockety had us setup for the early success and I think it was a good move to let Pujols go. However, it simply feels the talent level has steadily declined and particularly in select areas, like defense. I just think the slippage has more to do with who Mo has picked than how Matheny has coached.

It is a combination. But it also has to do with what DeWallet will let them spend. Thats the three part equation.
The outcome of that equation is... no "big time 3-4-5 rbi Bats" Offense is loade with 1,2,6,7,8 hitters that try to be 3-5 and lack production while striking out at a very high rate.
It is not a make contact , move them over type offense. They don't manufacture runs. They try to swing for the fence in situation where they just need to move the runner over.
they dont steal bases, they dont run the bases good at all.
defense is poor across the board. pitching is meh at best.
The team has no identity. They excel at no aspect of the game, they have no offensive leaders . No one can put the team on their shoulders and carry them for two weeks Like Pujols,Berkman ,Edmonds,Rolen, Or Holliday could.
the basic equation is dismantling the system
Dewallet not spending. Mo making mistakes and Matheny not teaching/enforcing fundamental baseball (something he excelled at as a player)

IlliniFan85 · Jul 4, 2017

Glad Matheny knows how to pull a pitcher when things are falling apart, but it's always after it's too late.

A good coach can pull the pitcher without worrying about stats like a win (yesterday with Waino) and a quality start (today with Lynn).

the national · Jul 4, 2017

Was at the game today. My dad kept sayin, 'we gotta pull Lynn, they are catching up with him woth all of those fpul balls'. Sure enough, next batter...bam. Matheny has to manage the pitchers better.

hermie1985 · Jul 5, 2017

Talk today sounds like management thinks the Cards are close. Great example where the numbers guys in the front office come up with a different analysis than the average fan.

I'm thinking we need help in the middle of the order, closer, set up and starting pitchers.

Sure we might get hot and take the division but this group doesn't feel like it will.

hermie1985 · Jul 6, 2017

I really hope Luke Voit becomes an All Star first baseman and middle of the order guy. Hometown slugger is such a great storyline.

I'm just enjoying getting a look into the future with guys like DeJong and Voit. I'm also enjoying Tommy Pham's success.

ratdawg · Jul 7, 2017

yeah this season has turned from doom and gloom to hopefully a glimpse of the future. would like to see more dominant young arms though.

the national · Jul 11, 2017

How bout that Homer by Yadi! Crazy that he is the guy to hit a homer with all those power hitters in the lineup for the All-star game.

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 13, 2017

Question for my fellow Cardinals fans...The Cardinals begin a 10-game road trip tomorrow night to open the 2nd half of the season (3 @ Pittsburgh, 4 @ the Mets, 3 @ the Cubs). By the end of this road trip, will we know if the Cardinals are going to be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?

SycIllini · Jul 14, 2017

Would be nice to see them get back to .500 by the end of the trip. Otherwise might as well work for the future.

hermie1985 · Jul 14, 2017

IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Question for my fellow Cardinals fans...The Cardinals begin a 10-game road trip tomorrow night to open the 2nd half of the season (3 @ Pittsburgh, 4 @ the Mets, 3 @ the Cubs). By the end of this road trip, will we know if the Cardinals are going to be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline?

Yes we will know if we should be buyers or sellers at the deadline.

We should be buying a long term power hitter now. We have needed middle of the order guys forever. Voit might be just that but they're about to sit him down when Wong returns to second base and Carp gets sent back to first.

It looks like Voit can be platooned with Carp because of the lefty righty match ups so maybe Voit gets a little more action than Adams did. A little talk in the StL paper that Carp might play some RF for a struggling Piscotty.

BillyBob1 · Jul 17, 2017

Do players get fined for plays like Fowler made? Don't know if the kangaroo court still exists. I wish they could get rid of him. Wonder if anyone would trade for him?

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 17, 2017

BillyBob1 said:
Do players get fined for plays like Fowler made? Don't know if the kangaroo court still exists. I wish they could get rid of him. Wonder if anyone would trade for him?

Little soon to be getting rid of him isn't it?

The play was a bad play made even worse by the inside the park HR just prior to that.

But let's pump the brakes a bit on getting rid of him. Especially for a guy they just signed to a 5 year deal prior to this season.

BillyBob1 · Jul 20, 2017

Isn't the 6 weeks about up we were going to wait and see if the team improved before other changes were made?

FollowTisdale · Jul 21, 2017

BillyBob1 said:
Isn't the 6 weeks about up we were going to wait and see if the team improved before other changes were made?

Just keep hoping for losses so quick-retool trades can be made. Most trades won't happen until next Thursday-Friday anyway.

Lynn has value as a rental. Rosenthal has value as that "big playoff bullpen" addition to a contender. Bigger pieces could be Carpenter (who they shouldn't move) or Gyroko. Could even ship out Wacha at what is probably his peak value (I don't even really expect him to be this healthy again).

SublimeBeast · Jul 21, 2017

Mariners Acquire Marco Gonzales From Cardinals For Tyler O’Neill

In acquiring Gonzales, the M’s gave up a well-regarded young player in O’Neill, who was comfortably positioned within preseason top-1oo prospect lists from MLB.com (36th), Baseball America (38th), Baseball Prospectus (53rd). Power is O’Neill’s calling card, as he has 89 homers over 1794 minor league plate appearances, including 19 this season at the Triple-A level. O’Neill got off to something of a slow start in his first taste of Triple-A action, though he has recovered to post a .244/.328/.479 slash line through 396 PA. He has cut down on his strikeouts over the last two seasons, though he still gets more than his share of whiffs, with 108 strikeouts this season. O’Neill’s plate discipline and average corner outfield defense are also works in progress, though the 22-year-old Canadian has so much raw power and overall hitting potential that the Cardinals are surely willing to tolerate some growing pains.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017...gonzales-from-cardinals-for-tyler-oneill.html

orangeroses07 · Jul 21, 2017

The Cardinals could very easily be 7-1 since the break, but are 4-4. A microcosm of the entire season thus far.

A question: There are a lot of rumors going around that the Cardinals are talking with the Marlins about one of their outfielders, who would all be under team control for at least 2018 and 2019. Do you pull the trigger? Obviously there are more needs than a big bat in the lineup, like bullpen help, but IMO it would be a great time to do it. Set yourselves up for the next 2 seasons at a minimum. They seem to have the farm system to pull it off, and we all know about the profits the ownership group brings in.

Free for any discussion, for or against.

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 21, 2017

orangeroses07 said:
The Cardinals could very easily be 7-1 since the break, but are 4-4. A microcosm of the entire season thus far.

A question: There are a lot of rumors going around that the Cardinals are talking with the Marlins about one of their outfielders, who would all be under team control for at least 2018 and 2019. Do you pull the trigger? Obviously there are more needs than a big bat in the lineup, like bullpen help, but IMO it would be a great time to do it. Set yourselves up for the next 2 seasons at a minimum. They seem to have the farm system to pull it off, and we all know about the profits the ownership group brings in.

Free for any discussion, for or against.

Well Jim Bowden was on MLB Network Radio today and thought that perhaps this O'Neill move could be part of a bigger move where they turn him or one of the other plethora of OFs they have into a trade with the Marlins involving someone like for example Stanton.

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 21, 2017

The trade wasn't the only move the Cardinals made today. They called up Carson Kelly, activated Grichuk and Duke, DFAed Fryer, and sent Tuivailala and Sierra to Memphis.

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 21, 2017

Here's part of the Bowden interview I mentioned: https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/888451215834611712

jrichisamazing · Jul 21, 2017

IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Well Jim Bowden was on MLB Network Radio today and thought that perhaps this O'Neill move could be part of a bigger move where they turn him or one of the other plethora of OFs they have into a trade with the Marlins involving someone like for example Stanton.

Before reading or hearing any reaction to the trade, this was my first thought as well.

I think we will be mentioned with in a lot of trade rumors over the next week or so. The front office will be very active and try to get creative which will put our name in many different hats. But in the end, I'm expecting and under the radar/low-risk move like usual.

And fans will be pissed when it happens, like usual. But I'm still banking on the fact that these moves have worked in the past the great majority of the time. Just not the past 2 years.

hermie1985 · Jul 22, 2017

When you look at the crowded outfield, what happens to Grichuk at the end of this (contract) year? He plays great after he's sent down or on DL but not when in the daily grind.

He needs to get hot to build value but I expect him to continue to struggle most days.

gibb52 · Jul 22, 2017

IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Little soon to be getting rid of him isn't it?

The play was a bad play made even worse by the inside the park HR just prior to that.

But let's pump the brakes a bit on getting rid of him. Especially for a guy they just signed to a 5 year deal prior to this season.

Has a NTC as well.

gibb52 · Jul 22, 2017

Yesterday was a great example of why this team is stuck in neutral.

Good thing we scored 11 runs.

E6. E3. 1 questionable base running play. And a failure by our "closer" to pitch a clean 9th inning.

Rinse and repeat game after game.

On the Stanton question I just can't see the Cardinals take on a $295m contract. Guy's a stud no doubt but has an injury history. I'd be very wary.

IlliniFaninHoosierLand · Jul 25, 2017

Cardinals have placed Wainwright and Fowler on DL and have called up touted OF prospect Harrison Bader from Memphis. They have yet to make a corresponding move for Wainwright.

2017 St. Louis Cardinals

ratdawg

ratdawg