2021-22 College Hoops Coaching Carousel

altgeld88 · Mar 22, 2022

WyattEarp said:
Thad got a raw deal at Ohio State IMO.

How so? IIRC, he was completely debilitated the final several seasons there, distracted by back pain so bad he could barely function. The program was beginning to suffer and I thought the decision to step down was his as much as OSU's, though I could be mistaken.

He was a great coach and built a powerhouse there after the scandals of Randy Ayers and Jim O'Brien in the late '90s, early '00s. Had kept recruiting solid talent, too. Holtmann came in and, although the preceding two seasons had been meh, had a lot to work with in that first season (the Wesson brothers, CJ Jackson, Ja'sean Tate) and finished a game out of first.

Not pursuing Matta in '03 was Guenther's most substantial error in his tenure as AD, IMO.

RJK01 · Mar 22, 2022

destindog said:
Self was never in it for the long run. After he agreed to but before he signed a the UI contract there was talk of Williams leaving KU for NC. Self called the the KU AD and said he hadn't signed a contract and would go to KU if Roy Williams left. That was always his dream job.

Didn't he also meet up with the KU AD in New Orleans at the Final 4 to make his pitch? I didn't think it was a formal interview, more of a "hey, great to see you. I would love to come back to KU. Let me know when you want to interview me" type of meeting.

MDchicago · Mar 22, 2022

Jankovich retires as SMU coach Former Illini assistant (Self's last year) and ISU head coach called it quits.

RJK01 · Mar 22, 2022

altgeld88 said:
How so? IIRC, he was completely debilitated the final several seasons there, distracted by back pain so bad he could barely function. The program was beginning to suffer and I thought the decision to step down was his as much as OSU's, though I could be mistaken.

He was a great coach and built a powerhouse there after the scandals of Randy Ayers and Jim O'Brien in the late '90s, early '00s. Had kept recruiting solid talent, too. Holtmann came in and, although the preceding two seasons had been meh, had a lot to work with in that first season (the Wesson brothers, CJ Jackson, Ja'sean Tate) and finished a game out of first.

Not pursuing Matta in '03 was Guenther's most substantial error in his tenure as AD, IMO.

There's more to it than Guenther not pursuing Matta. Not sure Matta would have even agreed to an interview. He had heart burn with the UofI. He was always a Purdue fan growing up and wanted to play there, but no offer. He wanted to coach there, but that didn't work out either, because Painter was brought home. I don't know what his problem with the UofI was, but rather disparaging in his remarks with his friends in Hoopston. Maybe someone on this board has more clarity.

altgeld88 · Mar 22, 2022

RJK01 said:
There's more to it than Guenther not pursuing Matta. Not sure Matta would have even agreed to an interview. He had heart burn with the UofI. He was always a Purdue fan growing up and wanted to play there, but no offer. He wanted to coach there, but that didn't work out either, because Painter was brought home. I don't know what his problem with the UofI was, but rather disparaging in his remarks with his friends in Hoopston. Maybe someone on this board has more clarity.

Hmm. Interesting. I recall bringing this up in the past year or so and someone who knew of the particulars noted that Guenther never even contacted him. Perhaps this is why.

WyattEarp · Mar 22, 2022

How so? IIRC, he was completely debilitated the final several seasons there, distracted by back pain so bad he could barely function. The program was beginning to suffer and I thought the decision to step down was his as much as OSU's, though I could be mistaken.

altgeld88 said:
He was a great coach and built a powerhouse there after the scandals of Randy Ayers and Jim O'Brien in the late '90s, early '00s. Had kept recruiting solid talent, too. Holtmann came in and, although the preceding two seasons had been meh, had a lot to work with in that first season (the Wesson brothers, CJ Jackson, Ja'sean Tate) and finished a game out of first.

Not pursuing Matta in '03 was Guenther's most substantial error in his tenure as AD, IMO.

Well, I might not have all the details right myself. But, I believe he was straight up fired…

He’s in the Ohio State Hall Of Fame
and is the school’s winningest basketball coach ever. It just seems like they could of at least asked him to step down.(ex Whitman -Fahey )…I know they are pals…but just think how much Thad meant to that place and the sport as a whole. At the time he was one of the winningest active coaches.

Can you imagine if we had done Henson like that…had his health declined…yikes!

Emerson Bigguns · Mar 22, 2022

WyattEarp said:
How so? IIRC, he was completely debilitated the final several seasons there, distracted by back pain so bad he could barely function. The program was beginning to suffer and I thought the decision to step down was his as much as OSU's, though I could be mistaken.

Well, I might not have all the details right myself. But, I believe he was straight up fired.,,

He’s is in the Ohio State Hall Of Fame
and is the school’s winningest basketball coach ever. It just seems like they could of at least asked him to step down.(ex Whitman -Fahey )…I know they are pals but just think how much Thad meant to that place and the sport as a whole. At the time he was one of the winningest active coaches.

Can you imagine if we had done Henson like that…had his health declined…yikes!

Per Wikipedia (final say on all internet arguments...lol):

On June 5, 2017, Matta mutually agreed with Ohio State to step down as their head coach due to his long time health issues that were causing a decline in team performance and recruiting. [17] His final season at Ohio State was the only in Matta's entire career that he failed to achieve at least 20 wins

WyattEarp · Mar 22, 2022

Emerson Bigguns said:
Per Wikipedia (final say on all internet arguments...lol):

On June 5, 2017, Matta mutually agreed with Ohio State to step down as their head coach due to his long time health issues that were causing a decline in team performance and recruiting. [17] His final season at Ohio State was the only in Matta's entire career that he failed to achieve at least 20 wins

Hmmm…well I hope that’s true. I really do. I dunno what to make of it honestly. A basic google search yields a whole lot of “Thad Matta Fired” stuff…too. Lol. So I dunno? Weird.

Sensationalist Journalism? Revisionist History? Lol crazy

Gregjacksonfan · Mar 22, 2022

RJK01 said:
There's more to it than Guenther not pursuing Matta. Not sure Matta would have even agreed to an interview. He had heart burn with the UofI. He was always a Purdue fan growing up and wanted to play there, but no offer. He wanted to coach there, but that didn't work out either, because Painter was brought home. I don't know what his problem with the UofI was, but rather disparaging in his remarks with his friends in Hoopston. Maybe someone on this board has more clarity.

Nope… I grew up with Thad. He was an Indiana fan growing up. His dad told me that Thad would of crawled on his knees to Champaign to get an interview. Guenther never contacted him.

illini0440 · Mar 22, 2022

Gregjacksonfan said:
Nope… I grew up with Thad. He was an Indiana fan growing up. His dad told me that Thad would of crawled on his knees to Champaign to get an interview. Guenther never contacted him.

Can confirm Thad wanted this job real bad

The Galloping Ghost · Mar 22, 2022

Gregjacksonfan said:
Nope… I grew up with Thad. He was an Indiana fan growing up. His dad told me that Thad would of crawled on his knees to Champaign to get an interview. Guenther never contacted him.

bluemountain · Mar 22, 2022

Gregjacksonfan said:
Nope… I grew up with Thad. He was an Indiana fan growing up. His dad told me that Thad would of crawled on his knees to Champaign to get an interview. Guenther never contacted him.

Reminds me of Rick Majerus' comment - he said he would crawl over broken glass to have an opportunity to take the Illinois job when Henson retired

ptgrd23 · Mar 22, 2022

I think Ron Guenther's issue with Thad at the time he hired Weber was his quick jumps. Thad stayed one more year then jumped to Columbus.
Butler 24-8
Xavier 26-6
Xavier 26-6

Given the short tenures of the Self and Kruger and I think Guenther was worried that Thad might be successful a couple years then leave so he went with the lower ceiling Bruce Weber.

Kruger 4 years
Self 3 years

JMO Thad would have been successful with Dee/Deron/James and continued the success after they were gone. Until Thad's health problems came up he never had trouble fielding a top 20 team at OSU. he coached 13 years at OSU. Made NCAA 9x (ineligible first year or 10). NCAA finals, Final 4, elite 8, 2 sweet 16, won NIT 1 year. Weber was fired after 7 years at Illinois. Choosing Weber over Matta put us into basketball purgatory for last 4 years of Weber, 5 years of Groce and first 2 years of Underwood as he was rebuilding.

Lesson #1 of business. Always hire the best candidate. Settling for weaker candidate so they won't leave is a bad strategy. Good businesses can always attract new workers if their predecessors were successful and went on to better opportunities. Henson' success attracted Kruger. Kruger success attracted Self. Self success attracted Weber. We had to settle for Gruce because Weber was not successful.

SKane · Mar 22, 2022

I agree with most of your post.

However, ILL settled for Groce because Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart said no to Mike Thomas and Mike Thomas apparently did not have a plan 1B.

skyIdub · Mar 22, 2022

I swear...just reading/hearing the names Ron Guenther and Mike Thomas make me want to give JDubs one his own bear hugs.

altgeld88 · Mar 22, 2022

WyattEarp said:
Hmmm…well I hope that’s true. I really do. I dunno what to make of it honestly. A basic google search yields a whole lot of “Thad Matta Fired” stuff…too. Lol. So I dunno? Weird.

Sensationalist Journalism? Revisionist History? Lol crazy

No... I believe you're correct. I must have not remembered it correctly. He was pretty much straight up fired, in the most weird, publicly diplomatic way possible.

"Smith admitted, however, he approached Matta with the decision and did not give him the option of coaching in 2017-18."

Thanks for setting me straight on it.

Ohio State just showed how not to handle a coaching change

Ohio State could have parted ways with coach Thad Matta two months ago. Instead, AD Gene Smith delivered a hard-to-figure June 5 stunner. Now, potential replacements are locked in on other jobs and big-name recruits are already headed to other campuses.

www.espn.com

WyattEarp · Mar 22, 2022

altgeld88 said:
No... I believe you're correct. I must have not remembered it correctly. He was pretty much straight up fired, in the most weird, publicly diplomatic way possible.

"Smith admitted, however, he approached Matta with the decision and did not give him the option of coaching in 2017-18."

Thanks for setting me straight on it.

Ohio State just showed how not to handle a coaching change

Ohio State could have parted ways with coach Thad Matta two months ago. Instead, AD Gene Smith delivered a hard-to-figure June 5 stunner. Now, potential replacements are locked in on other jobs and big-name recruits are already headed to other campuses.

www.espn.com

Absolutely no worries, man. I’m glad we got it figured out. Lol

altgeld88 · Mar 22, 2022

WyattEarp said:
Absolutely no worries, man. I guess we got to the bottom of it didn’t we? Lol.

lol. Would rather have been talking about how we're taking down Arizona Thursday night, and how I'm going to get up for work Friday when I won't be in bed until 1 a.m. here, but there you are!

Boomauer · Mar 22, 2022

skyIdub said:
I swear...just reading/hearing the names Ron Guenther and Mike Thomas make me want to give JDubs one his own bear hugs.

If I'm not mistaken JW has talked to and taken advice from RG in the past.

IlliniKat91 · Mar 23, 2022

Boomauer said:
If I'm not mistaken JW has talked to and taken advice from RG in the past.

How much of that advice has boiled down to, "Don't do what I did?"

pruman91 · Mar 23, 2022

MSN

If the Kentucky program were to move on from its coach of 13 years, the university would have to pay a serious price.

Coach Cal’s buyout this year is $52 million. This buyout figure decreases by a little more than $6 million per year over the next eight seasons.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

holy moly batman..........................................

JJE · Mar 23, 2022

pruman91 said:
MSN

If the Kentucky program were to move on from its coach of 13 years, the university would have to pay a serious price.

Coach Cal’s buyout this year is $52 million. This buyout figure decreases by a little more than $6 million per year over the next eight seasons.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

holy moly batman..........................................

View attachment 16595

I guess that's why you don't give someone a life contract unless their name is Nick Saban. I lived in Kentucky for about 5 years. The fans expectations are so high year in and year out that it wouldn't shock me if in a year or two if they didn't make a final four that he got ousted.

doowink · Mar 23, 2022

Boomauer said:
If I'm not mistaken JW has talked to and taken advice from RG in the past.

Taking advice and using it are two separate things

oldman · Mar 23, 2022

IlliniKat91 said:
How much of that advice has boiled down to, "Don't do what I did?"

There is a big difference between listening to advice, out of courtesy, and actually following the advice.

RabidDawgClassic · Mar 23, 2022

WyattEarp said:
How so? IIRC, he was completely debilitated the final several seasons there, distracted by back pain so bad he could barely function. The program was beginning to suffer and I thought the decision to step down was his as much as OSU's, though I could be mistaken.

Well, I might not have all the details right myself. But, I believe he was straight up fired…

He’s in the Ohio State Hall Of Fame
and is the school’s winningest basketball coach ever. It just seems like they could of at least asked him to step down.(ex Whitman -Fahey )…I know they are pals…but just think how much Thad meant to that place and the sport as a whole. At the time he was one of the winningest active coaches.

Can you imagine if we had done Henson like that…had his health declined…yikes!

Yeah. We only did that to Henson once his recruiting declined.

2021-22 College Hoops Coaching Carousel

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