As the coach, what would you do differently?

#51      

Illini Chief

I
Illini Chief
I'm no coach but neither is Groce--no adjustment ever.
Starting five: Lucas, Lands, Hill, Finke, Morgan. Full court press with Finke at front end of press as in a diamond and one press. Use Lands and Lucas to cut the passing lanes. Press untill the 12th man fouls out. Speed it up.
On half court defense use ZONE and be active. You get burnt you are on the bench.
We are not fast enough for one on one. Offense , some screens, give and go, and how about cutting once a pass has been made and you fill that space with a man for an out let or shot. Speed it it up , but not just 3's.
 
#52      

icengineer

I
Southern Illinois
icengineer
ILLHangOut said:
The problem I believe is that we aren't playing our best players according to the numbers. Its debatable amongst ourselves whether these statistics are relevant and accurately represent reality. There is ample evidence though that John Groce has adopted and welcomed these metrics throughout his career.

So, the question is why isn't he following their guidance?
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We all already know this. Groce has been called out on here since the start of the B1G, and earlier by some, for not playing the best players. Nice to see some numbers that back this up, thanks for posting this. Does make you go hmmmmm.:huh:
 
#53      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
My starting 5 would be Lucas, Hill, Kipper, Leron, and Mav. This group would see the bulk of playing time as I want players on the floor that can do it all at their respective positions. I love JCL, but at this point he is just a specialist. He can come in and drain some 3's, but at this point he can't guard his position for long stretches and he does very little creating and you could put Finke in this category. They both deserve minutes, but not starter or end of game defensive minutes. I like AJ and DJW and I would play them much more, they are basketball players that possess a lot of things you look for on the floor. I use Abrams off the bench to spell TLJ and can obviously play him in long spurts when he rolling or foul problems. Big Bo has just lost it, but right now just doesn't see the floor.
 
#54      

BillyBob1

BillyBob1
Champaign
BillyBob1
Ryllini said:
My starting 5 would be Lucas, Hill, Kipper, Leron, and Mav. This group would see the bulk of playing time as I want players on the floor that can do it all at their respective positions. I love JCL, but at this point he is just a specialist. He can come in and drain some 3's, but at this point he can't guard his position for long stretches and he does very little creating and you could put Finke in this category. They both deserve minutes, but not starter or end of game defensive minutes. I like AJ and DJW and I would play them much more, they are basketball players that possess a lot of things you look for on the floor. I use Abrams off the bench to spell TLJ and can obviously play him in long spurts when he rolling or foul problems. Big Bo has just lost it, but right now just doesn't see the floor.
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I know he didn't play much, but DJW looked completely disinterested vs Michigan when he was in the game.
 
#58      

jerho19

jerho19
jerho19
I have thought after year one, Groce's biggest problem has been his assistance coaches. Walker seems to be a good recruiter and is active on the bench. If he is ti be retained I would like to see him keep Walker and dump the other two. Bring in people who know x and os and can recruit,(can anyone say "the Rev") and another older experienced assistant.
 
#59      

CUtownie15

C
CUtownie15
Having watched closed practices personally and having family playing Div. 1 college basketball, I can speak firsthand and say the assistants are the ones that both A) Do the scouting and B) teach the players what to do (Favor the left hand, play off, etc.). The head coach was watching and would occasionally interject but often they were quiet. Illinois might be run differently but that's just my experience with the system.
 
#60      

tambo

tambo
tambo
I have always admired Phil Jackson's coaching style..

...in particular I have always liked Jackson's coaching style when it comes to rotating players in and out of games at the right time. Sometimes leaving a player in after one or even two mistakes may give that player a level of confidence to go out and make 1 game changing play. Too many times I have seen very talented Illini look tentative and scared to make the right play, for fear of being yanked out of the game I suppose?

With that said, I almost despise Coach Groce's subsitution patterns or lack there of in certain instances. It reminds me of a giddy inexperienced high school coach where a key player makes one quick mistake and is yanked from the game at a key time, with the thought that it's best the player come to the bench for some in-game coaching rather then making that same mistake again.

That to me is wrong and incorrect and at this level of play doesn't benefit anyone for this to continue to happen every game. We're in the the thick of B1G season and no light at the end of the regular season tunnel and its VERY frustrating. I appreciate almost everything Coach Groce has done for my university and all that he stands for as a man, but I'm ready for a change and ready to see a differant brand of college basketball played here.

I don't expect a blue-blood program here...EVER. What I do expect is a program that consistently gets to the NCAA Tournament. That doesn't look to happen now or in the near future and hasn't happend for far too long. Basketball is a huge huge part of my life and I take Illini basketball a little too personally at times and for that I'm guilty but with this thread came an outlet.....What I would do differently as a coach is change the damn substitution pattern we currently have.

end of rant
 
#61      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
Phil has always had hard decisions to make on who to put in games....


"Hey Michael, go in now"
"Kobe, your turn for some minutes"
 
#62      

Ryllini

Ryllini
Lombard
Ryllini
FiveStar said:
That's a tough definitive statement to make without seeing him practice.
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It is, but the times I have seen him or AJ out there I haven't once said what the hell are they out there for. Sure, AJ hasn't been the shooter we all expected, but his hustle and effort have been there and his mistakes have been from a lack of game experience. I played, not at that level, but actual game experience is different than practice experience. You can only simulate another team with your own players so much. DJW for the most part has been fine, his mistakes in my eyes are someone who is playing scared, because he knows what happens if he makes a mistake.

My point is, we have guys on this team that can play and do a lot of things on the court, but until there is a baptism by fire, they will never develop the way we want or they may be compelled to leave. I love JCL and Finke, but outside proving that they can get hot at times when they are spotted up, what else do they give you that make others better? JCL doesn't create or play defense at a high level and the same could be said for Finke. AJ and DJ in my eyes can guard and the more tick they get, the more of a rhythm they are likely to fall in to. TLJ said, he has no idea what the rotation is.

This is again, if I was the head coach.
 
#63      

The Dave

The Dave
CA
The Dave
Some thoughts (in no particular order)...

Institute an offense that..

1) Doesn't involve the PG passing to a F at the top of the key and then immediately handing the ball back to the PG with no movement or screening whatsoever. What the heck is this supposed to accomplish?

2) Run an offense that sets *multiple* screens to get JCL open. Heck, try one of those elevator screens. ANYTHING to get our best shooter some wide-open shots.

3) Make use of the Abrams/Black pick-and-pop at the elbow that was so incredibly effective early in the season and hasn't been even been tried since.

4) Teach people how to BOX OUT, not just jump for the ball when it's shot.

On Defense it is much tougher because we haven't consistently shown the ability to do ANYTHING. Additionally Defense is about effort and mindset more than offense is. I'm not a head-coach getting paid millions to motivate young men to work hard and don't claim I could do it. But if Groce can't either, then why is he here?

One thing I would try is a full-court press, even if it's not a high-pressure one like an WVU. Just forcing our opponents to get in their O with less time on the clock would help us with our overall defense (other teams are doing it to us, why not return the favor).
 
#64      

alaskaillini

A
alaskaillini
[This has been a great thread. I have appreciated the thoughtful commentary here rather than the hysteria prevalent in the coaching carousel thread. I always like FiveStar's coaching insights, and I think that the "trauma" analogy for the mental state of our current players after injuries and suspensions of the last two years and the results that followed is pretty spot on.
 
#68      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
mattcoldagelli
ChazzReinhold said:
Make a motivational ladder.


Edit: Sorry, already done.
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raw
 
#69      

katytxillini

K
katytxillini
Second and Chalmers said:
I dunno about changing the system, it's a bit too late for anything wholesale, but the thing I would really be focused on in practice is closeouts. Recognition and technique. We are inexplicably bad at that, prior Groce teams have been very good, and that's the basis of everything we want to do on defense.

I don't know how much strength and conditioning stuff goes on during the Big Ten grind, but some focus on flexibility work would also help that.

Offensively I feel like we ought to dabble with lineups where all five guys can shoot, which would probably involve Hill at the 4. Maybe Lucas/JCL/Jordan/Hill/Finke? We're not an instinctive team off the ball, but if the defense has to guard all five guys out to 3, at least then what ball movement we have will put some strain on the defense.
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Completely agree with your point on getting 5 shooters out there at once. I think you could even trade out Finke for Black. You are certainly losing a bit of shooting, but Black has proven competent in that and would at least give a bit of defensive balance.

I don't think this team could handle switching from man to zone on the fly. I'm more of the idea to pack it in, limit penetration and force teams to beat us over the top (like UVA).

Offensively, we need to put pressure on the defense with both players running the ball screen. No one is afraid of Abrams shooting or penetrating and they really aren't fearful of any bigs going to the rim. Finke can pop and Black can a bit as well. Right now, anytime we have a possession where I see a screen not on the ball I get excited. We can't create penetration with this team off the dribble but we could scheme it. Right now all screens are either ball screens or ones for guys coming off to the three point line. Nothing going to the rim.
 
#75      

CoalCity

C
St Paul, MN
CoalCity
After watching the way the team reacted I might blow my stack during the game every now and then.