Baylor 82, Illinois 69 Postgame

TheAngryBavarian · Dec 4, 2020

Just my two cents on the lineup thing...I don't think Hawk is ready for starters minutes quite yet, I feel like he's going to get annihilated if he has to go straight up with say...Reuvers and/or Potter from Wiscy all night. He's good, and he definitely is and will continue to be a contributor, but not to that level in my opinion, yet. I can see the argument for starting Curbelo, but I feel that BU is starting Trent because (and this will sound a little cheesy, but it's legitimate) he is the Dee Brown type figure for this team, in terms of vocal leadership and being the sparkplug for a team. which Belo doesn't have, and may not ever have.

pruman91 · Dec 4, 2020

This is how I felt before the game.....

After the game........

rtbritt · Dec 4, 2020

TheAngryBavarian said:
Just my two cents on the lineup thing...I don't think Hawk is ready for starters minutes quite yet, I feel like he's going to get annihilated if he has to go straight up with say...Reuvers and/or Potter from Wiscy all night. He's good, and he definitely is and will continue to be a contributor, but not to that level in my opinion, yet. I can see the argument for starting Curbelo, but I feel that BU is starting Trent because (and this will sound a little cheesy, but it's legitimate) he is the Dee Brown type figure for this team, in terms of vocal leadership and being the sparkplug for a team. which Belo doesn't have, and may not ever have.

I mean, we got people calling for Hawkins as a starter and he played like 5 minutes? If people really think he is ready to start, maybe he should earn a few more minutes first!

I'm impressed that he has seemingly earned a rotation spot for now, but it's not like he has done anything overly impressive so far. He could just as easily slip into no minutes. Let's see a few more games first.

othawhitemeat · Dec 4, 2020

illini55 said:
Duke is not a "must win." Why do our fans just make comments like this---if we lost to Duke by 20 and then go on to be competitive in the Big Ten, these games will be a mere distant memory. Losing to ranked teams at this time of year does very little to harm our power ranking, and this "sky is falling" mentality accomplishes nothing. Just stop the hyperbole.

Yeah, for most part, Michigan State loses a lot of these battles early in season, but come on strong in the end. I agree with you on this. I think as long as our leadership stays tough and we keep adjusting, it will make us tougher. However, I do think we should beat Duke based in terms of experience along with talent at this junction. Honestly, Duke has not shown much shooting. I would be tempted to play some Zone against them due to their inexperience so far and also, watching them against Michigan State, all they did was drive into the paint.

othawhitemeat · Dec 4, 2020

BRucks said:
He had four fouls.

Curbelo on d needs to gamble less, but he shows some good d at times too. However, he is such an energizing player that gets everyone involved.

othawhitemeat · Dec 4, 2020

Fanview said:
It marvels me how quick people are to ask for different starters game by game. Have one bad game and I'm sure they'll be calling for these new starters heads already

The only person I would start, but give it a couple of more games to settle down more is Curbelo. He just makes everyone better. Who gets to sit - I don't know, but Curbelo keeps showing those flashes. It is not a knock on one of the other starters, but Curbelo so far is showing he could be such a difference maker. It is more to me how good I think Curbelo can be and how quickly he can help. He will have a lot of learning curves for sure.

DRS · Dec 4, 2020

Folks, good lord! at least there are some reasonable voices in this thread...

We all do realize we lost a game that we were certainly competitive in until mid way through the second where a burst of 7 points in like 20seconds did us in against quite possibly the best team in the nation??? Horrible coaching, switch the starting lineup...chill.

That was Trent's worst game in like 2 years in terms of turnovers and he needs to sit? to a player that is literally averaging twice as many TOs in half the playing time. Listen, I love Bello and think he is going to be a force but let's all relax on this. Hawk should start? We've got a long way to go and Duke is not a must win, hell UT Martin is more of a must win than Duke. It's like some of us have forgotten how college basketball operates. I would love this team to go undefeated and knock of the best team in the nation like its no big deal but thats just not in the cards.

Adjustments will be made. Defense and offense will evolve. For those doubting Underwood's ability to scheme does so at their own peril. His offensive prowess is very highly thought of in the coaching world.

DRS · Dec 4, 2020

othawhitemeat said:
The only person I would start, but give it a couple of more games to settle down more is Curbelo. He just makes everyone better. Who gets to sit - I don't know, but Curbelo keeps showing those flashes. It is not a knock on one of the other starters, but Curbelo so far is showing he could be such a difference maker. It is more to me how good I think Curbelo can be and how quickly he can help. He will have a lot of learning curves for sure.

It is true that he can break defenses down off the bounce, I think people are reacting to that skill set, which is special. But he also has yet to grasp the offense and needs to find his spots better. There are a lot of horses on this squad and at times running the offense puts us in better positions to score in the long haul. Trent/DMW/Ayo all do this very well. Do not mistake struggles against the best perimeter defense in the nation as a broken system, which I know you didn't say, I mean that generally.

KevinC · Dec 4, 2020

VAIllini35 said:
Haven't had a chance to watch the game yet - traveling. But it's worth pointing out that Ayo had a SLOW start to both of his first two seasons. Hopefully this is his version of slow this year and he makes another leap in in the next two games.

Ayo was either double teamed or forced into help almost every time, after crossing mid court. Too many people are just seeing his numbers. He scored very well in the 2nd half.

pruman91 · Dec 4, 2020

We played the # 2 ranked team even up for almost 3/4 of the game.....they returned 7 of 8 of their leading scorers from last season when they were ranked # 1 for a long period of time...
We got very little production from kofi.....trent had 6 TO's.....Adam shot 2-11 from the field....we were atrocious form the FT line.....
We had a 5-6 minute stretch of missed shots, turnovers , etc and against a seasoned team like Baylor, they will make you pay for that every time...
BU has a lot of time to rectify the mistakes and I am heartened by the play of hawkins and curbelo as true frosh...Adam will be fine...this game showed us what we need to improve on to become a B1G contender and play deep in the NCAA tourney...

I have high hopes for this squad as we finally have the roster to make some noise and play in the dance

Jguede · Dec 4, 2020

I think its pretty funny Vital muscling all night and ends up with 1 foul and for that matter the aggressive defense they play and how few fouls were called on them is a bit frustrating. Also I think a lot of screens that they were running were moving......increadible.

Deleted member 29907 · Dec 4, 2020

KevinC said:
Ayo was either double teamed or forced into help almost every time, after crossing mid court. Too many people are just seeing his numbers. He scored very well in the 2nd half.

I am not complaining about him - as I said I didn't see the game yet. I guess my statement was - he seemed to start out slow the last two years. In fact there were many early game threads that questioned his ability to go pro (all from recall - no research). So my question is - if this is a (relatively speaking) 'slow' start for Ayo - I can't wait til he kicks it up another gear. But, perhaps he's figured out the slow start thing and this is his game going forward.

othawhitemeat · Dec 4, 2020

DRS said:
It is true that he can break defenses down off the bounce, I think people are reacting to that skill set, which is special. But he also has yet to grasp the offense and needs to find his spots better. There are a lot of horses on this squad and at times running the offense puts us in better positions to score in the long haul. Trent/DMW/Ayo all do this very well. Do not mistake struggles against the best perimeter defense in the nation as a broken system, which I know you didn't say, I mean that generally.

Oh I agree and I said in a couple of games if he proves it. Maybe, I'm just overly excited about one prospect that I feel will be our best pure pg since Deron. He just does electrifying stuff. Either way, he will get some minutes.

IllGuardU · Dec 4, 2020

othawhitemeat said:
Oh I agree and I said in a couple of games if he proves it. Maybe, I'm just overly excited about one prospect that I feel will be our best pure pg since Deron. He just does electrifying stuff. Either way, he will get some minutes.

I like the fact that he’s willing to pass to the big when open.

the juiceman cometh · Dec 4, 2020

KevinC said:
Ayo was either double teamed or forced into help almost every time, after crossing mid court. Too many people are just seeing his numbers. He scored very well in the 2nd half.

BU needs to work with the team on how to approach situations where Ayo is constantly facing double teams and tough defense. I can't imagine Baylor is going to be the last team to hone in on Ayo defensively. We can either let that frustrate our offense or use it as an opportunity. I saw some of that in the 1st half with Giorgi, but in the 2nd half there wasn't much evidence we knew how to handle it. If Ayo is doubled it means someone else is open, we just need to figure out how to get the ball where it needs to go

TCTORNADO · Dec 4, 2020

KevinC said:
Ayo was either double teamed or forced into help almost every time, after crossing mid court. Too many people are just seeing his numbers. He scored very well in the 2nd half.

There was a lot of help side defense on Ayo. That happens when you play a 4 on 5 offense.

2qtslow · Dec 4, 2020

TCTORNADO said:
There was a lot of help side defense on Ayo. That happens when you play a 4 on 5 offense.

A 3 on 5 offense worked just fine for Baylor. They did not run plays for Vital or their big.

MC06 · Dec 4, 2020

MadIllini4 said:
It’s just very discouraging to see the half-court offense struggle so badly. It’s one thing to lose, it’s another thing to lose in the fashion we did. High-caliber teams are not going to let us get out in transition. There are going to be games where we need to adapt our offensive strategy.

I had this same reaction. But I do think the offensive execution will improve as we get further into the season, as it did last year. I also think we’ll be better off if Curbelo, rather than Ayo, is the guy with the ball in his hands when the defense shuts down what we’re trying to do and we just need someone to make a play. But Curbelo will need some time to adjust to this level before he’s ready to be given the keys.

TCTORNADO · Dec 4, 2020

2qtslow said:
A 3 on 5 offense worked just fine for Baylor. They did not run plays for Vital or their big.

Thamba and Vital were 4 for 9 in 40 minutes. Certainly, not go to guys but definitely offensive threats.

grantlab · Dec 4, 2020

Had a chance to go back and watch highlights. A big part of that Baylor run that took us out of the game was Kofi a step too slow on the defensive end. Was an issue in the Ohio game too. BU plays our D so out guards chase through every ball screen; that’s fine, but it certainly gives the ball handler a lot of breathing room and necessitates our 5 being in good position. Kofi had a tendency to come out too far and get blown by off the dribble. I think a differentiator in the 1st half is Giorgi is a lot quicker on his feet coming off those defensive ball screens and forced contested floaters or a kick out to reset. I’d almost like to see Kofi sit back a step or two, and if we give up a deep 2 off a screen, fine. He’s going to be a more effective shot-blocker if he’s in front of the driving guard rather than chasing after getting beat off the dribble, and he’s such a big body that he’ll alter shots in the lane just by being there. Something I’m sure the staff will work on, but Kofi footwork would be one of the main areas needing improvement thus far.

alaskaillini · Dec 4, 2020

DRS said:
Folks, good lord! at least there are some reasonable voices in this thread...

We all do realize we lost a game that we were certainly competitive in until mid way through the second where a burst of 7 points in like 20seconds did us in against quite possibly the best team in the nation??? Horrible coaching, switch the starting lineup...chill.

That was Trent's worst game in like 2 years in terms of turnovers and he needs to sit? to a player that is literally averaging twice as many TOs in half the playing time. Listen, I love Bello and think he is going to be a force but let's all relax on this. Hawk should start? We've got a long way to go and Duke is not a must win, hell UT Martin is more of a must win than Duke. It's like some of us have forgotten how college basketball operates. I would love this team to go undefeated and knock of the best team in the nation like its no big deal but thats just not in the cards.

Adjustments will be made. Defense and offense will evolve. For those doubting Underwood's ability to scheme does so at their own peril. His offensive prowess is very highly thought of in the coaching world.

This.

Even if Curbelo is as good as some people think he is, all things being equal, he is not going to supplant Trent as a starter unless Trent implodes (which he won't). Trent has really been the face of the team since Day 1 for BU. He is a senior on his last tour. Maybe Curbelo eats into his playing time some, but he is not going to be an every day starter unless he starts playing like a one and done.

As for Trent's TOs the other night, I doubt anyone is more disappointed than he is. And I expect that he will make it a point to return to the focus on the ball handling that he had last year. Trent will be fine, and maybe better for the experience.

DocMorgan · Dec 4, 2020

I promised myself after the game I would avoid this thread because of the game outcome and because I was sure that some of the comments would be overactive and tick me off more than the game.

Well,I kept my promise to myself for 48 hours and here I am. I am frustrated with some of the negative comments about Ayo, his shot selection and effort. I have been critical with regards to Ayo in the past, but not this game. He played hard. Baylor played the best perimeter defense I can ever remember seeing. Their defenders are interchangeable and this allowed them to easily switch when we attempted to run a weave or high ball screen offense.

Some have said that Ayo should have realized he was struggling with his shot and instead should have elevated the play of his teammates. Baylor’s defense was so stifling that everyone sucked except GB for the first half when he was channeling his Frosh year when Baylor was focusing on perimeter defense with Kofi on the pine.

The thing that worries me the most about the team is that Curbelo is the only player that can beat you off the dribble and get to the paint against an elite defensive team and when he gets there he doesn’t always make the correct decision because he is a freshman. My only Ayo criticism from the game, and he has to improve this skill for the NBA, is that against good teams he has trouble getting to the rim off the dribble in a half court set. Especially his left hand. I was disappointed in his ball handling last night. Additionally, Trent has to be able to beat people off the dribble. He was better at this as a Frosh compared to now.

Oh well, it is one game. It is my hope we learn lessons from this game and improve. Hopefully, we will get another shot at Baylor and we will be better prepared to handle their intense defensive pressure.

Sorry for the dissertation.

KevinC · Dec 4, 2020

VAIllini35 said:
I am not complaining about him - as I said I didn't see the game yet. I guess my statement was - he seemed to start out slow the last two years. In fact there were many early game threads that questioned his ability to go pro (all from recall - no research). So my question is - if this is a (relatively speaking) 'slow' start for Ayo - I can't wait til he kicks it up another gear. But, perhaps he's figured out the slow start thing and this is his game going forward.

I was not under the impression that you were complaining about Ayo. But, many are. I think how Baylor decided to challenge Ayo, from the start, took him and the staff by surprise. Adjustments were made at halftime and he was much better despite all of the cut-offs and physicality of the Baylor defense. I think that we were too intent on getting the ball inside. Yes, we could score inside but we slowed play down to do it against a very quick and physically strong opponent. I think that our shooters should have been shooting instead of having to throw something up late in the shot clock or giving up a turnover trying to pass the ball inside. My comment was because you said that you hadn't seen the game.

Deleted member 16340 · Dec 4, 2020

Anyone remember when the light went on for Malcolm and Nunn? Give it more than 160 minutes of college ball, please.

Ga65 · Dec 5, 2020

Comparison of All Americans stats:
Ayo 6/18 fg 2/3 3pt 4/5 ft 6 reb 5 asst 3 to
Butler 6/18 fg 0/4 3pt 0/1 ft 5 reb 3 asst 3 to

Going to have a target on your back all season. Just that all teams won’t have an answer even so.

Baylor 82, Illinois 69 Postgame

TheAngryBavarian

pruman91

rtbritt

othawhitemeat

othawhitemeat

othawhitemeat

DRS

DRS

KevinC

pruman91

Jguede

Deleted member 29907

Guest

othawhitemeat

IllGuardU

the juiceman cometh

TCTORNADO

2qtslow

MC06

TCTORNADO

grantlab

alaskaillini

DocMorgan

KevinC

Deleted member 16340

Guest

Ga65