Bob Huggins

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#76      
Chad Fleck
I fear the path we walk down as we demonize more and more words. When do thoughts become wrong? How about we make people say certain things? This is where we can track some of the most oppressive societies in human history to.

It's a difficult balance. I'd prefer the institutions stay out of speech issues, but I admit that's a tough pill to swallow.
 
#77      
ChiefGritty
Chad Fleck said:
I fear the path we walk down as we demonize more and more words. When do thoughts become wrong? How about we make people say certain things? This is where we can track some of the most oppressive societies in human history to.

It's a difficult balance. I'd prefer the institutions stay out of speech issues, but I admit that's a tough pill to swallow.
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I mean this is all fine, but let's be real, what Huggins said and the context in which he said it is very comfortably on the side of "obscenities not welcome on public broadcasts".

Ideas are not being censored here. The case for the freedom of expression of ideas is stronger for not having to defend "a drunk old basketball coach doing gay slurs about a rival school on the radio" like it's the Pentagon Papers.
 
#78      
mg93
I for one can’t wait to see/hear all the creative ideas/cheers the away teams’ students sections are gonna pull out when WVU comes to town.

Freedom of speech isn’t freedom of consequences. I guarantee the folks saying they’re just words haven’t been on the other end of them when they’re being spoken with ultimate hate. It’s easy to laugh off “jokes” but it’s not ok to laugh off dehumanization and oppressive language.

And words most definitely lead to sticks and stones.
 
#81      
WhiteHorseWings
Chad Fleck said:
One of the bigger issues in Western society is that we can't disagree and still live together peacefully.

I don't have the popular opinion here, but I'm not willing to call any of you lesser than me over it. We had a reasonable back and forth, and I'm good with that.
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Maybe you should run for the Presidency
 
#82      
Champaignheat
I saw a cartoon picture a while back and it said something close to this:

1944 our 18 year olds were storming the beach of Normany.
2023 our 18 year olds are looking for a safe place to cry about words.

I understand what he said was wrong and there should be stern consequences in todays standards, but I think our society as a whole has become very soft and unable to deal with controversy.
 
#83      
mattcoldagelli
Chad Fleck said:
I believe speech should be completely free.
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It is. Or at least, his is. He's not being jailed.

Speech is not consequence-free, and never has been, and we would save a lot of breath and angst if people could realize the difference between "being legally allowed to say something" and "when I say something, negative reactions aren't allowed"
 
#85      
ChiefGritty
mattcoldagelli said:
It is. Or at least, his is. He's not being jailed.

Speech is not consequence-free, and never has been, and we would save a lot of breath and angst if people could realize the difference between "being legally allowed to say something" and "when I say something, negative reactions aren't allowed"
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And the thing about a non-governmental ethic of "live and let live" for people speaking their mind (which I agree with) is that while Huggins will keep his job in 2023, you'd better believe he would have been fired for saying the exact same thing on broadcast radio in 1944, albeit for somewhat different reasons.

We've got a pretty permissive speech culture in the grand scheme of things.
 
#86      
mg93
Champaignheat said:
I saw a cartoon picture a while back and it said something close to this:

1944 our 18 year olds were storming the beach of Normany.
2023 our 18 year olds are looking for a safe place to cry about words.

I understand what he said was wrong and there should be stern consequences in todays standards, but I think our society as a whole has become very soft and unable to deal with controversy.
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It’s not that hate crimes and bills attacking human rights are skyrocketing across our nation and people are sticking up for the communities they care about.

It’s just that the youth today are soft.

Was that bud light boycott youth-driven? Cus that was one of the “softest” things I’ve ever heard about.

Ok, I’m done. Sorry Dan. Go Illini!!
 
#87      
The Sprouting Divot
Champaignheat said:
I saw a cartoon picture a while back and it said something close to this:

1944 our 18 year olds were storming the beach of Normany.
2023 our 18 year olds are looking for a safe place to cry about words.

I understand what he said was wrong and there should be stern consequences in todays standards, but I think our society as a whole has become very soft and unable to deal with controversy.
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Perhaps not coincidentally, in 1944, there were more proud Nazis in Germany than there were in the United States.
 
#88      
battle
bleedsorangenblue said:
Can't believe that there is any support for Huggins here. Had he used the N word or other derogatory ethnic slur, he would have been unanimously condemned. Words have consequences when they denigrate people of all types.
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I haven't seen any explicit or implicit support or condoning by anyone. I have observed that some posters wish that people had thicker skins when someone says something offensive, stupid, disagreeable, ....
 
#89      
WhiteHorseWings
mg93 said:
It’s not that hate crimes and bills attacking human rights are skyrocketing across our nation and people are sticking up for the communities they care about.

It’s just that the youth today are soft.

Was that bud light boycott youth-driven? Cus that was one of the “softest” things I’ve ever heard about.

Ok, I’m done. Sorry Dan. Go Illini!!
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Wow. Before it gets taken down I have to comment on the best post I’ve ever seen on here. Well done.
 
#90      
Oranges
Champaignheat said:
I saw a cartoon picture a while back and it said something close to this:

1944 our 18 year olds were storming the beach of Normany.
2023 our 18 year olds are looking for a safe place to cry about words.

I understand what he said was wrong and there should be stern consequences in todays standards, but I think our society as a whole has become very soft and unable to deal with controversy.
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Grampa Simpson Meme GIF by MOODMAN
 
#91      
alaskaillini
TheodoreRex said:
Chad Fleck said:
They are still but words. Free speech should be just that. The violence is wrong. Words are not violence, despite what some might say.
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Countless psychological studies would disagree with this...
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One of my biggest issues about free speech in America today is the concept of "words as violence" is being regularly used to justify violence against people whose words some people find offensive. You should be able to say some things that people find offensive without being physically attacked for it. Words do not justify violence.
This has become acceptable behavior on many college campuses where speakers are cancelled because of the threat of violence or are physically accosted if they do speak. For example, there is a legitimate debate over whether transgender biological males should be allowed to compete in women's sports, but people who have a position on that issue are being physically attacked for talking about it in a respectful manner because those on the other side of the debate perceive the words as violence against them. In that sense, words should not be considered violence.
There should be no issue with respectful discourse about difficult subjects that involve race or other sensitive topics (although there is). However, the use of obviously demeaning terms, especially by a public person representing a public entity, is not respectful. Huggins deserves what he gets in that regard. I do note that one now has to be worried that respectful discourse will be seen by some as disrespectful due to the use of "code words", which I do find troublesome.
 
#92      
SeattleSlim
mattcoldagelli said:
It is. Or at least, his is. He's not being jailed.

Speech is not consequence-free, and never has been, and we would save a lot of breath and angst if people could realize the difference between "being legally allowed to say something" and "when I say something, negative reactions aren't allowed"
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Newton’s Third Law (speaks to human nature, as well as everything else our limited brains claim to comprehend)
 
#95      
Old Farm Illini
Champaignheat said:
I saw a cartoon picture a while back and it said something close to this:

1944 our 18 year olds were storming the beach of Normany.
2023 our 18 year olds are looking for a safe place to cry about words.

I understand what he said was wrong and there should be stern consequences in todays standards, but I think our society as a whole has become very soft and unable to deal with controversy.
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That same generation threw a hissy fit when black and brown people tried to attend schools or go to restaurants. I'll pass on putting them on a pedestal.
 
#96      
socalini
Gotta say I love this site. Intelligent discourse, insightful takes and timely on-point humor provide an added layer to the many reasons I keep Illini Loyalty open for the better part of most days.

Would be nice if there were more places people could go to share opinions and humor without having it devolve into insults and pissing matches.
 
#98      
I lost Kofi's blue binder
Chad Fleck said:
I never said i wanted that mandated. I just wish we lived in a society that cared that much (again) to simply value that time of the week.
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You talk about “caring” and “values.” I would encourage you to to broaden the list of things you care about and value.

For what it’s worth, nobody is a true free speech maximalist—not even you. If someone stood outside your church every Sunday and terrified churchgoers by screaming violent threats at them, I suspect you would have no problem with that individual facing (in this case, presumably legal) consequences. And you shouldn’t!

For all that divides us, I do genuinely believe that most—not all, but most—people agree that we collectively can be much better to one another. Holding powerful people accountable when they do or say hateful things is a *good* thing. You have not lost your right to petition your government or to speak your mind generally. You have merely witnessed that, for all the work we still have in front of us, society has at least made a little progress on this one issue to the point that “hey, we shouldn’t be okay with slurs against historically abused and discriminated-against populations” is a consensus position.

EDIT: I see a fair bit of talk about people needing to have “thicker skins.” Frankly, that means very little coming from people who I can all but assume are not members of the community who that word targets. A statement blasting Christianity would almost surely not bother me personally, for instance, whereas it may bother Chad Fleck a great deal. That doesn’t mean he needs to develop a thicker skin.
 
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#100      
bluemountain
It seems as though the punishment here fits the crime - he said something hurtful, he paid a price but didn't lose his job or suffer unnecessarily harsh punishment. Time to let it go and move on. Yes, Huggy Bear is a jerk, but that's his problem.

On the topic of the whole Dylan Mulvaney/Bud Light boycott thing....Budweiser was really stupid in terms of how they approached this, particularly the way it was framed by the marketing director for Bud Light. In essence saying their existing customer base are a bunch of neanderthals is more than a little stupid and she was rightfully fired for her stupidity. At the same time, boycotting Budweiser products because of this is the definition of being a snowflake. Nobody was hurt by it, get over yourself and let it go. If you are going to boycott Bud Light, do it for a legitimate reason; for example, because it tastes like watered down p*** water.
 
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