Bracketology

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#101      
Based on the range we are likely to be seeded, we are not getting a cupcake in round one, regardless of the rest of the season's results. That said, I think the matchup gods owe us one for the last two seasons.
We will have to put together two of our best performances of the year to get to the second weekend.
Last night, I saw a team that could do it... Last week? ...
Hopefully we are starting to peak, rather than just riding up another hump on the rollercoaster.
 
#102      
Based on the range we are likely to be seeded, we are not getting a cupcake in round one, regardless of the rest of the season's results. That said, I think the matchup gods owe us one for the last two seasons.
We will have to put together two of our best performances of the year to get to the second weekend.
Last night, I saw a team that could do it... Last week? ...
Hopefully we are starting to peak, rather than just riding up another hump on the rollercoaster.
Couple things, 1) We would rather be a 10 than an 8/9, Winning last night makes that REAL difficult. Now, we need to sell out to a 7 seed, because we gotta avoid the top half of brackets. 2) This team is STREAKY. Even last night in Overtime when we went down 7, we looked lost. Then TSJ got his and-one and we found our "Identity" again. Issue is that the team thinks the identity is to jack up threes, when it's pretty obvious that we are better getting downhill and to the basket. That is our identity that works, and we need to stick to it.
 
#103      

danielb927

Orange Krush Class of 2013
Rochester, MN
Just looking at the team sheets today, I would be really worried if I were Rutgers. Guessing they'll only drop to a 10 seed or so in the matrix after last night, but they feel bubblier to me than that. 2-4 in Q3 is ugly.

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#104      
Relevant NET updates of Illini opponents today. Wins are listed first, and then they are listed in order of how unlikely they are to drop down to the next Quadrant. Just under the heading, I put a reminder of what qualifies for each category ... mostly to help me as I typed this! :ROFLMAO:
...
Updated today after the win against Michigan and some movement in the NET Rankings!

Quad 1: 2-9
H: #1-30, N: #1-50, A: #1-75
W
vs. #4 UCLA (Las Vegas, NV)
W vs. #10 Texas (New York, NY)
L at #25 Maryland
L at #29 Indiana
L at #33 Iowa
L at #45 Northwestern
L vs. #30 Virginia (Las Vegas, NV)
L at #57 Penn State
L at #60 Ohio State
L vs. #29 Indiana
L vs. #49 Missouri (St. Louis, MO)

(MSU is 1 spot away from making us 3-9; Wisconsin is 2 spots away from making us 4-9)

at #5 Purdue

Quad 2: 7-1
H: #31-75, N: #51-100, A: #76-135
W
vs. #31 Michigan State
W at #77 Wisconsin
W vs. #38 Rutgers
W vs. #45 Northwestern
W vs. #55 Michigan
W at #93 Nebraska
W vs. #60 Ohio State
L vs. #57 Penn State

(W vs. #77 Wisconsin is 2 spots away)

Our absolute best case scenario of beating Purdue, MSU moving up to at least #30 and Wisconsin moving up to at least #75 transforms our resume in the following way headed into the BTT:

Baseline: Lose to Purdue, Rankings Remain the Same
vs. Quad 1:
2-10
vs. Quad 2: 7-1
vs. Quad 3: 4-0
vs. Quad 4: 7-0

Best Case: Beat Purdue, MSU/Wisconsin Move Up
vs. Quad 1:
5-9
vs. Quad 2: 6-1
vs. Quad 3: 3-0
vs. Quad 4: 7-0

Wisconsin plays at Minnesota, so I am not sure if a win there moves them up the necessary two spots? We'll see. Michigan State plays NET darling Ohio State at home, so a Spartan win almost certainly moves them into a Quad 1 win for us. We should obviously be worrying about BEATING PURDUE, but root for Sparty and Bucky if you can as long as it doesn't negatively affect the Illini!

Also, for everyone's reference here is where each game would fall in the Quadrants for a neutral site Big Ten Tournament game:

Quad 1: 1-50
vs. #5 Purdue
vs. #25 Maryland
vs. #29 Indiana
vs. #31 Michigan State
vs. #33 Iowa
vs. #38 Rutgers
vs. #45 Northwestern

Quad 2: 51-100
vs. #54 Michigan
vs. #57 Penn State
vs. #60 Ohio State
vs. #77 Wisconsin
vs. #93 Nebraska

Quad 3: 101-200
(Nobody)

Quad 4: 201-353
vs. #227 Minnesota

So, as far as BTT matchups go...

- I'd rather not play Minnesota (absolutely nothing to gain) or Nebraska (feisty team lately and dangerously close to a Quad 3 loss in Chicago).
- For both the Quad 1 win and other reasons, I particularly want a shot at Iowa and Rutgers in the BTT.
- If you leave everything the same in the simulator (including us losing to Purdue), we are the #7 seed and play Wisconsin on Thursday (Quad 2) and Iowa on Friday (Quad 1).
 
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#105      
(MSU is 1 spot away from making us 3-9; Wisconsin is 2 spots away from making us 4-9)

At the same time, Mizzou is 1 spot from turning from a Q1 loss to a Q2 loss, and OSU, which is 10 spots from a Q1 loss to a Q2 loss, has to play MSU next anyway.

I think we are what we are at this point, short of a Purdue win.
 
#106      
At the same time, Mizzou is 1 spot from turning from a Q1 loss to a Q2 loss, and OSU, which is 10 spots from a Q1 loss to a Q2 loss, has to play MSU next anyway.

I think we are what we are at this point, short of a Purdue win.
Eh, good point on Mizzou, but I'm not worried about unambiguously rooting for MSU to beat OSU. The NET Rankings have been weirdly obsessed with Ohio State all year. Our home win against them was Quad 1 into early February after they had lost 8 of 9 - meaning they were still in the top 30! They got close to dropping out of the top 75 the other week, and beating us and Maryland at home got them back inside the top 60. :ROFLMAO:
 
#107      
Q1 wins is the single most important number.

No, it isn't. If it were, Iowa State would be higher than a 6 seed right now. They're 8-10 in Q1 games. And they don't have a Q3 or Q4 loss to muck it up.

Q1+Q2 is equally as important, if not more so, than Q1 alone.
 
#110      
Eh, good point on Mizzou, but I'm not worried about unambiguously rooting for MSU to beat OSU. The NET Rankings have been weirdly obsessed with Ohio State all year. Our home win against them was Quad 1 into early February after they had lost 8 of 9 - meaning they were still in the top 30! They got close to dropping out of the top 75 the other week, and beating us and Maryland at home got them back inside the top 60. :ROFLMAO:
It pains me to say this, but Mizzou might be the most criminally underseeded team right now. Their resume is legit, and they should be a 5 seed.
 
#111      
The fact they're projected as a 6 with a 17-12 overall record doesn't exactly negate my point.

Except it does. They are tied for the 7th most Q1 wins but are in the 21-24 range overall. If Q1 wins were "the single most important number", their seed would be better.

But fine, let's go with Miami. 7 Q1 wins (tied for 7th most in D1). 5 seed. 23-6 overall record.

Or Wisconsin. 6 Q1 wins (tied for 13th most in D1) and they're currently one of the last 4 teams in.
 
#112      
This year will be very interesting for the committee. Here is the Q1 record for the top 7 teams, by NET, in each P5 conference:

B12: 65-58
SEC: 35-45
P12: 29-43
ACC: 24-36
B10: 35-51

Very few home Q1 games outside of the B12 this year. They have 7 of the top 30 teams by NET. The Big Ten has 3. SEC has 5. P12 and ACC have 2 (and Virginia is at 30 right now).
 
#113      
^ Yeah, this is what's kind of annoying, IMO. Like yes, the Big XII looks great. However, because the NET initially had all of those teams ranked so highly, their top teams get to pile on Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins left and right ... it just widens the gap as conference play keeps going. Am I a NET Communist?! :ROFLMAO:

Conversely, the Big Ten actually had a pretty good non-conference season. As December was wrapping up, these were the rankings based on what teams had accomplished against (mostly) non-Big Ten opponents:

#1 Purdue
#16 Illinois
#17 Wisconsin
#18 Indiana
RV #26 Maryland
RV #33 Ohio State
RV #35 Iowa
RV #39 Michigan State

Now obviously things change, but it is kind of a weird conceptual exercise to think that the main reason the conference is about to have only TWO teams in the top 25 is ... we beat up on each other? Not saying we necessarily deserve more teams in the top 25, but how can we judge the strength of the Big Ten by Big Ten teams beating Big Ten teams?

I expect some Big XII teams to be great in the Tournament, but guess what? Everyone expected the absolutely loaded, NET-darling Big Ten to excel in March Madness in 2021, and everyone expected the absolutely awful ACC to suck in last year's Tournament! I haven't picked it apart, but how much of our "bad" record vs. Quad 1 teams is all of us losing road conference games to top 75 opponents to lead to our current mess of standings??

EDIT: I completely agree with your take on Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins. I don't have any quotes to back this up, but I feel like the Committee has essentially said they look at things like this:

Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins are a plus. They're "good wins."
Quad 3 and Quad 4 losses are a minus. They're "bad losses."

Obviously, a Quad 1 win will be better than a Quad 2 win, and a Quad 4 loss will be worse than a Quad 3 loss. However, Illinois' 7-1 record in Quad 2 games and ZERO losses to Quad 3 or Quad 4 teams is hardly chopped liver.
 
#114      
If our metrics were still top 30 I could see a 7 seed even with limited q1 wins. Hard to justify much better than an 8 seed with metrics in the 35-40 range with our wins. I would argue we don't have a single bad loss however, so will come down to what committee values.
 
#115      
Sorry if this is wrong thread but is Illinois the current 2 seed if the BTT started today? That is what I am getting from the simulation website but wanted to ask.
 
#116      
Sorry if this is wrong thread but is Illinois the current 2 seed if the BTT started today? That is what I am getting from the simulation website but wanted to ask.
Actually nevermind. They are currently the 7 seed. Initially read it wrong.
 
#117      
We have thought that before though and they always seem to get the benefit of the doubt.
Agree but we are also helped by UNC currently being in the first four out. You know the committee will find them a slot regardless of record, and that is one less for UM.
 
#120      
Just looking at the team sheets today, I would be really worried if I were Rutgers. Guessing they'll only drop to a 10 seed or so in the matrix after last night, but they feel bubblier to me than that. 2-4 in Q3 is ugly.

View attachment 23838
That was a huge loss last night for them. I'm pretty sure they need one more win to get in. Two should definitely button it up for them
 
#121      

OnlyOrange

Belleville, IL
Just looking at the team sheets today, I would be really worried if I were Rutgers. Guessing they'll only drop to a 10 seed or so in the matrix after last night, but they feel bubblier to me than that. 2-4 in Q3 is ugly.

View attachment 23838
Wow. 2-4 in quad 3? That's rough. You're right - that doesn't feel like a team that doesn't sweat a bit next Sunday.
 
#122      
Updating my BTT game time scenarios for all Chicagoans and visitors who may be interested! We are no longer in contention for the #1 seed or #10-14 seeds. So, these are our updated seeding probabilities:

#7 seed: 31%
#8 seed: 20%
#6 seed: 14%
#9 seed: 11%
#4 seed: 9%
#5 seed: 9%
#3 seed: 5%
#2 seed: 1%

Let's start with Thursday scenarios. A top 4 seed means a double bye and skipping ahead to Friday; there is a 15% chance of that happening. These are the overall probabilities (cumulative 85%) of our game times on Thursday. In parentheses, I put the probabilities IF you assume we are for sure playing on Thursday and not a top 4 seed:

Thursday Game Times
5:30 pm: 31% (36.5%)
11:00 am start: 31% (36.5%)
8:00 pm start: 14% (16.5%)
1:30 pm start: 9% (10.6%)

"After Work" start time: 45% (52.9%)
"Work Day" start time: 40% (47.1%)

Without dealing with the probability of a victory (i.e., assuming Illinois has won a game Thursday OR got a double bye to begin with), these are the odds of our start times on Friday. Please note that some will change, as they now total 100%. For instance, there's a 14% chance we are the #6 seed and play at 8:00 pm on Thursday (seen above), but there's also a 5% chance we are a #3 seed and play our first game at 8:00 pm on Friday ... so, IF we assume we're playing Friday, there's a 19% overall chance it's at 8:00 pm. :cool:

Friday Game Times
5:30 pm: 32%
11:00 am start: 31%
8:00 pm start: 19%
1:30 pm start: 18%

"After Work" start time: 51%
"Work Day" start time: 49%

And, if the Boys really have caught fire and are peaking at the right time and we're all super pumped up and the United Center will be painted orange ... well, here's Saturday:

Saturday Game Times
2:30 pm start: 51%
12:00 pm: 49%

I won't be able to swing any afternoon games on Thursday or Friday because of work, but I hope to see PLENTY of orange in the building regardless of if I'm there or watching it on my phone! We are ecstatic to go if we play at 5:30 pm or later on Thursday/Friday and/or make it to Saturday. I-L-L!
 
#124      

OnlyOrange

Belleville, IL
Interesting game ahead for Penn State this weekend - they're the last team in right now per Lunardi, and playing at home against Maryland, a team that is frankly terrible on the road but has excellent metrics.

A win there might put them in (not safely...but would really help). Have to figure they'll be all out for it.
 
#125      
Interesting game ahead for Penn State this weekend - they're the last team in right now per Lunardi, and playing at home against Maryland, a team that is frankly terrible on the road but has excellent metrics.

A win there might put them in (not safely...but would really help). Have to figure they'll be all out for it.
Can’t remember all the annoying scenarios, but I believe a PSU win is also good for us.
 
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