Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#251      
Fighter of the Nightman
Mr. Tibbs said:
I’m not arguing with you , as Moser seems like a good guy and decent coach . not sure of his recruiting chops . but winning the B1G is pretty much as hard as winning the B12 or SEC .

now , I will grant you that recently , the top 6 teams in either of those leagues are maybe a tad better than the top 6 in the B1G
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Forget the conferences … I think Illinois has proven to be a better basketball job over the years. We underachieve historically, OU overachieves and we still have a better tradition.
 
#252      
bluemountain
mhuml32 said:
Good reminder that athletic leadership are bad negotiators. Collins is fine, better than NW likely deserves. That said, no way should he be in the top half of B1G paid coaches.
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he's easily one of the top 5 coaches in the conference
 
#253      
grue2
illini55 said:
Totally disagree. He’s a class act from top to bottom and has raised the bar at NW. I’d be proud to have him coach at Illinois. With our resources and reputation, he’d kill it.
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Class act? Collins? Take a look at the legal actions involving Collins circa 2020 and the actions he and his staff took against a player that didn't live up to on court expectations. It is Sampson level crap. The kid did appears to have done everything right other than not living up to their hype.

Collins' on court results I won't argue with. They are really good for NW.
 
#255      
the juiceman cometh
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Forget the conferences … I think Illinois has proven to be a better basketball job over the years. We underachieve historically, OU overachieves and we still have a better tradition.
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Sure but inheriting a program that is consistently making the tournament and then taking 4 years to make the tournament while consistently finishing in the bottom half of your conference is not at all similar, and objectively worse, than inheriting a program that hadn't been to the tourney in 4 years and turning it into a program that makes the tourney every year while also winning multiple conference titles.
 
#256      
OrangeBlue98
BackThatPassUp said:
Yeah I feel like he should've been the heir to the duke job but I don't think he would relinquish control to too many outside influences including coach emeritus.
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I'm still kind of surprised he didn't end up at Villanova. I think he would have done an outstanding job there.
 
#261      
The Dying Illini
TheodoreRex said:
He does, but he also finds a way to win. He's an odd dude, but he's found a recipe for success.. At the very least he will make Maryland more than competitive next year.
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As someone who is close to the DMV area the initial reaction to Buzz was not well received. Best way I heard Buzz to Maryland described was that the floor will be greatly elevated and the ceiling will drop.

Since his 2nd to last season at Marquette (12-13) Buzz has made the second weekend 1 time.

His teams will consistently play hard, be tough as nails and hard to out rebound. Culturally it fits the MD recruiting scene, especially in the Baltimore Catholic league but his ties to the area recruiting are definitely in question.

If he wants to have success hell need to tap into the DMV recruiting area. Love having Buzz in the conference and maybe this helps Brad get the monkey off his back of being unable to beat MD lol.
 
#262      
sbillini
bluemountain said:
Give Collins the same resources and I take him over BU or Altman
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College Basketball Wow GIF


i mainly just wanted to use that gif...it's a classic and has been a while. perfect opportunity.
 
#263      
the juiceman cometh
bluemountain said:
Give Collins the same resources and I take him over BU or Altman
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Based on what? He's a .career 377 coach in the Big Ten. He's a good coach for a low-expectation program like Northwestern, but there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he can just step into a higher profile, higher expectation situation and do better than a proven commodity like BU. It's an entirely different job.
 
#264      
CrazyIlliniLady
the juiceman cometh said:
Based on what? He's a .career 377 coach in the Big Ten. He's a good coach for a low-expectation program like Northwestern, but there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he can just step into a higher profile, higher expectation situation and do better than a proven commodity like BU. It's an entirely different job.
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He does a lot with the limited resources he has. Northwestern is actually relevent now, which is a significant upgrade from what they had before. I think Chris has outcoached Brad a few times (and I'm a Brad fan) with less talented teams than ours. He's also beaten Purdue, MSU, Indiana, and other top Big 10 teams
 
#265      
the juiceman cometh
CrazyIlliniLady said:
He does a lot with the limited resources he has. Northwestern is actually relevent now, which is a significant upgrade from what they had before. I think Chris has outcoached Brad a few times (and I'm a Brad fan) with less talented teams than ours. He's also beaten Purdue, MSU, Indiana, and other top Big 10 teams
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I get all that, but coaching a team with the expectations of Illinois is entirely another thing from coaching a team like Northwestern. John Groce is doing a phenomenal job at Akron, and did a phenomenal job at Ohio. That didn't translate to Illinois. I don't know if what Collins is doing at Northwestern would translate to success at Illinois or another higher profile program. Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't. Nobody knows. And either ADs or Collins himself aren't sure either, or he wouldn't still be at Northwestern.
 
#266      
bluemountain
the juiceman cometh said:
Based on what? He's a .career 377 coach in the Big Ten. He's a good coach for a low-expectation program like Northwestern, but there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he can just step into a higher profile, higher expectation situation and do better than a proven commodity like BU. It's an entirely different job.
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Well, he routinely beats BU head to head with far less talent. He's been to 3 NCAA tournaments at a school with no basketball history.

I'll flip the question around - why do you think Brad is a better coach than Collins?
 
#269      
fatboyslim
bluemountain said:
Well, he routinely beats BU head to head with far less talent. He's been to 3 NCAA tournaments at a school with no basketball history.

I'll flip the question around - why do you think Brad is a better coach than Collins?
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Routinely? Yeah right
 
#271      
BackThatPassUp
the juiceman cometh said:
I get all that, but coaching a team with the expectations of Illinois is entirely another thing from coaching a team like Northwestern. John Groce is doing a phenomenal job at Akron, and did a phenomenal job at Ohio. That didn't translate to Illinois. I don't know if what Collins is doing at Northwestern would translate to success at Illinois or another higher profile program. Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't. Nobody knows. And either ADs or Collins himself aren't sure either, or he wouldn't still be at Northwestern.
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I think in the advent of NIL things might be different for Groce. He was often bringing a knife to a sword fight and he definitely zeroed in on some great pieces. He was just often the bride for guys that could've really made a difference.
 
#272      
the juiceman cometh
bluemountain said:
Well, he routinely beats BU head to head with far less talent. He's been to 3 NCAA tournaments at a school with no basketball history.
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Not even remotely true. BU's record vs. Collins is 11-5. If you take out those two first seasons where BU was building things up, it looks even better at 11-3.

bluemountain said:
I'll flip the question around - why do you think Brad is a better coach than Collins?
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Why wouldn't I? First, more success at every single coaching stop he's had. Second, since you love the head-to-head, he has a .688 winning percentage against him. And then, Collins has also had momentum before and failed to capitalize. At one point he had two straight 20-win seasons in 2016-17 and 2017-18, making the tournament in the latter. That's a program on the rise you can sell to recruits, right? How did he build on that? With 5 straight losing seasons. Then he finally turned things around again, making the tournament 2 straight years and then...16-15.

He's a fine coach for what that job is, but there's a reason major programs aren't banging down his door. I'm not even saying the reason is that he's bad. The reason is that he hasn't really shown anything. He's worked at one of the few high-major programs where losing is actually OK, and the where you can be celebrated for simply not losing sometimes. If you want to hire a guy who is going to win, you just don't know if he gives you that, and you also gotta wonder why he's stuck with Northwestern for so long and hasn't tried to go somewhere that actually cares about winning championships.
 
#273      
thefalcon5
BackThatPassUp said:
I think in the advent of NIL things might be different for Groce. He was often bringing a knife to a sword fight and he definitely zeroed in on some great pieces. He was just often the bride for guys that could've really made a difference.
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Groce by all accounts is a good, not great coach.

I would love to be wrong, but I don’t think him landing a Jalen Brunson/Quin Snider/Cliff Alexander does anything more than a quick tournament exit.

You’ve seen how BU can build this program, I just don’t think Groce has the chops to do the same at a power conference school.
 
#275      
Emerson Bigguns
thefalcon5 said:
Groce by all accounts is a good, not great coach.

I would love to be wrong, but I don’t think him landing a Jalen Brunson/Quin Snider/Cliff Alexander does anything more than a quick tournament exit.

You’ve seen how BU can build this program, I just don’t think Groce has the chops to do the same at a power conference school.
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Brunson is an absolute superstar who has done nothing but win, everywhere he goes. He probably would have saved Groce's job for another 4 years.
 
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