Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#104      
foby
mysterio2525 said:
we don't talk about that game
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Brad Pitt Laughing GIF
 
#105      
Indy Illini Fan
jamarvelous31 said:
Question will be if, hopefully 5+ years from now, he's done enough to get a shot at the HC job
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If he hasn’t been out on his own as a HC then the answer is no from my perspective …

Illinois isn’t a place where you get your first HC job …

Tyler wants to be assistant then that’s fine … But I want no part of the deal Auburn & Houston got themselves into …
 
#106      
bluemountain
jamarvelous31 said:
I think the collective perception is that Bruce was a good coach who was brutally out of his depth in big boy recruiting.

That and you can't convince me that Self didn't take some of those Chicago kids out of spite 😂
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Definitely out of his element, and hamstrung by RG. Having said that, there is a "what if" aspect to his tenure. E'twaun Moore and Robbie Hummel were there for the taking, but we locked in on Eric Gordon early and ended up missing out on all 3. Not to mention the fact we spent a lot of time recruiting Derrick Rose when there was no chance he was ever coming here. Then there is the Sherron Collins saga, where we had a verbal in hand but Weber encouraged him to take his visits rather than shut things down.
 
#107      
Indy Illini Fan
jamarvelous31 said:
@Indy Illini Fan any idea where the Pitino smoke is coming from?

Is Providence really a better job?
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Richard went to Providence … Lot of ties there …

Providence had double the NIL money Xavier did this year … Richard wants to remain in the Big East … Providence would support him and honestly I think Richard is a really good coach and would do well there …

Xavier is a good job for the right guy … The problem at Xavier since Mack left has been the AD and then the new President … Not the coaches … Both the AD and the President need to be fired … How anyone associated with the program let Xavier go from 1 seed to this is just bonkers to me …

Xavier people would very much welcome Chris Mack or Pat Kelsey … They’re almost like Duke in a way … Always want to keep it in the family …

Travis Steele is just like his brother Groce … ELITE level MAC coaches … And that’s where they should stay … He wasn’t ready when he got the Xavier job … And that’s really what set the program back … And they lost one of their biggest boosters because he wasn’t ready …
 
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#109      
aveseaboy
I can't imagine him dealing well with the egos of the NBA or lack of effort at times, especially with him being almost 70.
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yeesh. sorry for all of the 62 yo's here that are "almost 70"
 
#110      
RockfordIllini
bluemountain said:
Definitely out of his element, and hamstrung by RG. Having said that, there is a "what if" aspect to his tenure. E'twaun Moore and Robbie Hummel were there for the taking, but we locked in on Eric Gordon early and ended up missing out on all 3. Not to mention the fact we spent a lot of time recruiting Derrick Rose when there was no chance he was ever coming here. Then there is the Sherron Collins saga, where we had a verbal in hand but Weber encouraged him to take his visits rather than shut things down.
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Throw Jamar Smith in there too.

I will say I used to feel bad for both Bruce and Groce for all of their what if moments, an on some level I still do. Both seem like first rate humans who I enjoyed rooting for and I was sorry it didn’t work out for them.

That said, the amount of adversity/what ifs Brad has dealt with dwarfed anything experienced by the prior 2 regimes. Assistant coaching poaches, portal departures, a goon breaking our best player’s face, crazy concussion for our preseason all American, a weird, bogus criminal charge from a rogue DA, etc. I feel like any number of things that have happened to Brad would have sunk other coaches. But we just keep rolling. Now just need another deep tourney run or two.

If it was two guys coaching against each other in a youth summer camp, I’d probably pick Bruce from an X’s and O’s perspective. But no question Brad is a far superior program builder/problem solver/CEO. Like Henry Atkins, he just by god gets things done.
 
#111      
jamarvelous31
RockfordIllini said:
Throw Jamar Smith in there too.

I will say I used to feel bad for both Bruce and Groce for all of their what if moments, an on some level I still do. Both seem like first rate humans who I enjoyed rooting for and I was sorry it didn’t work out for them.

That said, the amount of adversity/what ifs Brad has dealt with dwarfed anything experienced by the prior 2 regimes. Assistant coaching poaches, portal departures, a goon breaking our best player’s face, crazy concussion for our preseason all American, a weird, bogus criminal charge from a rogue DA, etc. I feel like any number of things that have happened to Brad would have sunk other coaches. But we just keep rolling. Now just need another deep tourney run or two.

If it was two guys coaching against each other in a youth summer camp, I’d probably pick Bruce from an X’s and O’s perspective. But no question Brad is a far superior program builder/problem solver/CEO. Like Henry Atkins, he just by god gets things done.
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Are we really so sure Bruce is the superior Xs and Os coach?

Weber was exclusively man to man and motion offense. 04 and 05 were top 10 offenses then a lot of years of hot garbage. D was mostly good, but it seems like he gets more credit for top 40 Ds at IL and KSU than BU gets here.

We've seen Underwood's teams have top 10 offenses with 3 distinctly different styles and generally as good in def efficiency.
 
#112      
FreshlySqueezed
Indy Illini Fan said:
If he hasn’t been out on his own as a HC then the answer is no from my perspective …

Illinois isn’t a place where you get your first HC job …

Tyler wants to be assistant then that’s fine … But I want no part of the deal Auburn & Houston got themselves into …
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Genuine question.

Is Duke? I mean, the Tyler situation resembles the Scheyer situation a bit, no?

You obviously have more detailed info but from the outside, it seems like it could be somewhat similar.
 
#113      
ChiefGritty
FreshlySqueezed said:
Genuine question.

Is Duke? I mean, the Tyler situation resembles the Scheyer situation a bit, no?

You obviously have more detailed info but from the outside, it seems like it could be somewhat similar.
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TU is a lot younger with a lot less experience.

Scheyer basically reinvented that program as a one-and-done factory as AHC before he actually got the head job.

Plus the nepo thing is just different and has a different sort of track record.

I have every expectation that we have several more years of Brad with Tyler assisting him to look forward to before any rubber meets the road on a separation for whatever reason. We'll all be operating with more information when that time comes.
 
#114      
bluemountain
RockfordIllini said:
Throw Jamar Smith in there too.

I will say I used to feel bad for both Bruce and Groce for all of their what if moments, an on some level I still do. Both seem like first rate humans who I enjoyed rooting for and I was sorry it didn’t work out for them.

That said, the amount of adversity/what ifs Brad has dealt with dwarfed anything experienced by the prior 2 regimes. Assistant coaching poaches, portal departures, a goon breaking our best player’s face, crazy concussion for our preseason all American, a weird, bogus criminal charge from a rogue DA, etc. I feel like any number of things that have happened to Brad would have sunk other coaches. But we just keep rolling. Now just need another deep tourney run or two.

If it was two guys coaching against each other in a youth summer camp, I’d probably pick Bruce from an X’s and O’s perspective. But no question Brad is a far superior program builder/problem solver/CEO. Like Henry Atkins, he just by god gets things done.
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I have knocked Brad at various times for various things, but you can't ignore the fact he is working on his 3rd FF caliber team in 6 years. Not only that, but they are 3 very distinct teams - you have the Kofi/Ayo led team, the TSJ/Domask/CoHawk team, and this year's team. Doing this once, maybe even twice could be a fluke. It's not a fluke when someone does it 3 times.
 
#115      
Tevo
Indy Illini Fan said:
If he hasn’t been out on his own as a HC then the answer is no from my perspective …

Illinois isn’t a place where you get your first HC job …

Tyler wants to be assistant then that’s fine … But I want no part of the deal Auburn & Houston got themselves into …
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Tyler needs to find a spot, maybe after next season, where the previous coach left a solid program to move up.
He arrives, wins early, and adds some things he's learned at Illinois, and builds his HC chops.
Then Brad retires after 28-29 season, and Tyler comes back to win our fifth consecutive National Championship in 29-30.
 
#116      
Tevo
bluemountain said:
I have knocked Brad at various times for various things, but you can't ignore the fact he is working on his 3rd FF caliber team in 6 years. Not only that, but they are 3 very distinct teams - you have the Kofi/Ayo led team, the TSJ/Domask/CoHawk team, and this year's team. Doing this once, maybe even twice could be a fluke. It's not a fluke when someone does it 3 times.
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What is the benchmark for "final four caliber" aside from actually making the FF? Was ranked in the Top 10 at some point? Was ranked all season? Won 25+ games?
 
#117      
the juiceman cometh
FreshlySqueezed said:
Genuine question.

Is Duke? I mean, the Tyler situation resembles the Scheyer situation a bit, no?

You obviously have more detailed info but from the outside, it seems like it could be somewhat similar.
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And the #1 team in the country (Arizona) is coached by a guy who got that job as a first-time HC too.

It's going to be a while before BU retires, hopefully. At that time I hope the AD doesn't rule anything out for one reason or the other, and makes an informed decision. If the best thing to do is promote TU great. If it's to hire someone else. Also great.
 
#118      
Hessel Blvd
I have knocked Brad at various times for various things, but you can't ignore the fact he is working on his 3rd FF caliber team in 6 years. Not only that, but they are 3 very distinct teams - you have the Kofi/Ayo led team, the TSJ/Domask/CoHawk team, and this year's team. Doing this once, maybe even twice could be a fluke. It's not a fluke when someone does it 3 times.
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Doing what 3 times, not making it to a FF?
I get your point, but also, double-digit losses in the second round the last 5 years doesn't really feel like building towards something. Really, looking at BU's illinois tournament record, the only win that is impressive is Iowa State in '24, and that got followed up by the Uconn spanking where we just tripled down on sending 6'6" guys at Clingan.
 
#119      
RabidDawgClassic
Tevo said:
What is the benchmark for "final four caliber" aside from actually making the FF? Was ranked in the Top 10 at some point? Was ranked all season? Won 25+ games?
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Reasonable reflection. I think most people would consider the 20-21 and 23-24 teams as “final four caliber” despite falling short both times. The other teams, while mostly good, didn’t meet that subjective (key word) metric.
 
#120      
Bigtex
I have knocked Brad at various times for various things, but you can't ignore the fact he is working on his 3rd FF caliber team in 6 years. Not only that, but they are 3 very distinct teams - you have the Kofi/Ayo led team, the TSJ/Domask/CoHawk team, and this year's team. Doing this once, maybe even twice could be a fluke. It's not a fluke when someone does it 3 times.
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Little Orange bias to say 3rd FF caliber team - when he hasn't made it to the Final 4.
 
#121      
Tevo
Travis Steele will be a hot name … As will Schertz …
I’ve heard some Pitino to Providence rumblings …
Cronin would be open to a move …
LSU sounds like it will be open … Oklahoma will be open …
Paris gets another year … Forbes gets another year …
I continue to hear Duke could be open …
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Indy, what about the situation at Kansas? Self with another "incident" recently has to be considering stepping away, and Kansas has to have a short list of options. I wonder what you've heard about that and the options they'd consider.
 
#122      
Mobi
jamarvelous31 said:
Are we really so sure Bruce is the superior Xs and Os coach?

Weber was exclusively man to man and motion offense. 04 and 05 were top 10 offenses then a lot of years of hot garbage. D was mostly good, but it seems like he gets more credit for top 40 Ds at IL and KSU than BU gets here.

We've seen Underwood's teams have top 10 offenses with 3 distinctly different styles and generally as good in def efficiency.
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A lot really depends on personnel. Bruce's system takes smart players who can read defense. Brad runs simpler schemes but he is versatile. Bruce is definitely a better defense coach IMO.
 
#123      
Mobi
Tevo said:
What is the benchmark for "final four caliber" aside from actually making the FF? Was ranked in the Top 10 at some point? Was ranked all season? Won 25+ games?
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FF caliber is very subjective. But for me, top three seed is always nice unless you tumble on the first weekend (like the 2021 tream.)
 
#124      
ptgrd23
FF caliber is very subjective. But for me, top three seed is always nice unless you tumble on the first weekend (like the 2021 tream.)
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1984 26-5 B10 champ Elite 8 - Bruce Douglas team - Lou
1989 31-5 2nd in B10 FF - Flying Illini - Lou

1998 23-10 Big10 champ - round of 32 - Turner - Kruger (probably does not quality but they did tie for 1st in B10)

2001 27-8 Big 10 champ Elite 8 - Frankie - Self
2002 26-9 Big 10 champ Sweet 16 - Frankie - Self

2004 26-7 B10 champ Sweet 16 - Dee Deron - Weber
2005 37-2 B10 champ NCAA finals - Dee Deron - Weber

2021 25-7 B10 champ round of 32 - Ayo Kofi - Brad
2022 23-10 B10 champ round of 32 - Kofi - Brad (probably does not qualify)
2024 29-9 2nd in B10 Elite 8 - TSJ - Brad
2026 ???

I put in all B10 champions, realistically the 1998 and 2022 teams overachieved and were probably not realistic FF
 
#125      
ChiefGritty
jamarvelous31 said:
Are we really so sure Bruce is the superior Xs and Os coach?
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"X's and O's" kind of mashes up a lot of different concepts to oversimplify "ability to win with the talent you recruit".

The X's and O's in Bruce's head work in college basketball, Gene Keady and Matt Painter have proved that for decades.

Where Bruce habitually failed was in delivering what was in his head into his player's heads. Our guys did not know what he wanted them to do, over and over and over again. His greatest successes at both Illinois and K-State were with established groups of players who already knew how to play high-level college basketball, which Weber's ideas could refine and supplement.

Building great college players on his own? Couldn't do it.

Whereas, you watch last night, and this bunch of young kids who had never played together before this year and come from different countries speaking different languages all over the globe, led by an 18 year old, have an enormous fluency and level of sophistication in terms of being able to read and react to what they see on the floor, in a system that has been customized to their strengths.

That's not really separable into neat piles of "X's and O's" over here and "recruiting" over here. It just all comes under the heading of "coaching".
 
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