Orlando ain’t no simp
Coaching Carousel
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How dare you bring logic and reason to a message board for fan(atics).
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
I don't think that pokes a hole in the argument. Have we ever had an AC that we might make the highest salary in his profession? I believe the answer is no (unless we go way, way back -- then I have no clue), so by definition we will never have had an AC as valuable as OA (if this comes to fruition, knock on wood). This is uncharted territory where historical data unrelated to OA isn't that useful. I'm not going to spend much time going year-by-year but enough ACs pre-Weber (Robert McCullum, Jimmy Collins, Rob Judson) landed head gigs at schools that are semi-comparable to a USF-type, so we can also say that it's possible to make the same jump here that he made at KY.
The two best jobs landed to my knowledge are Lowery to SIU after one year at Illinois and Gillispie to UTEP. The Lowery to SIU thing is even misleading because of the circumstances. How does that make here a better spot to get a major HC job as an assistant than Kentucky? Seems like being the highest paid assistant in history at Kentucky accomplishes the same thing...
ginabackes00
CrazedUIFan
it’s possible the potential to consistently put Illinois in the top 10 while you are the lead recruiter, which hasn’t happened in years, as opposed to being at Kentucky where the reputation as the top blue blood helps selling itself to recruits might be more enticing And impressive for a Head coaching position. I think JW and Underwood have shown they are all in.
I think you are conflating “character” with “this isn’t what I signed up for and will reconsider”. They are two separate things:
A) Coaches leaving for legitimate opportunities are (usually) not character issues.
B) Kids deciding the circumstances have changed and want to revisit their options is reasonable, too.
B can be warranted without A. The bar for raising character concerns is much higher than this current situation would warrant. Let’s give this staff the respect they deserve even if they end up leaving.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
A shrewd AD would most definitely agree.
Tony Yates: Cincinnati
Jimmy Collins: UIC
Rob McCullum: C. Michigan—>USF
Rob Judson: N. Illinois
Norm Roberts: St. John’s
Billy Clyde: UTEP—>A&M—>Kentucky
Tim Jankovich: ISU
Chris Lowery: SIU
Brandon Miller: Butler
And we’ve had other assistants like Snacks and Webster who’ve moved on to blue blood assistant gigs.
Point is, a lot of former Illinois assistants have gotten good opportunities. Unsurprisingly, those opportunities seem to come more often when the team is having a high run of high success, and not so much when the team is struggling. Sure, it’s more likely that an assistant at Kentucky, Kansas or UNC is going to be more top of mind when a job opens, because those programs are more high profile. But that position doesn’t always guarantee that great job offers will present themselves (see: Snacks, Webster).
Antigua is a well known commodity, and this public battle for his services is only raising his profile higher. I’m sure he’s got his eye on a couple potential HC positions opening up in the near future (Miami, maybe?) and when one of those spots opens up, he’ll be a competitive candidate regardless of where he spends his next year or two as an assistant. I think the odds he serves out a 4 year contract as an assistant at either UI or UK are low.
JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
- Chicago
Little known fact: "New York, New York" by Sinatra was originally about Champaign, Illinois. But our AD at the time forced a rewrite because Sinatra wasn't an "Illinois guy."
Crazy thinking about what could have been.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
conspiracy theory, much?
Maybe high profile HC jobs is the wrong standard. Assistants usually don't go directly to high level head coaching jobs. The next step is generally a low or mid-major job. Nat Frazier to Morgan State. Tony Yates to Cincinnati. Les Wothke to Western Michigan. Jimmy Collins to UIC Rob Judson to NIU. Chris Lowery to SIU. Brandon Miller to Butler.
We can all have our opinions concerning this situation but from my experience with young people if you tell them one thing for 12 months then tell them something different after you got them to trust you, then for a lot of them their immediate response is...... but you said.....and then trying to figure out what to do if things do change causes a lot of questions about sincerity. I won’t respond again because I don’t want to come across as argumentative. And to address another response about the player’s relationship with the head coach is what will keep them, my response to that logic is why does 1/3 of the comments concern us losing the recruits? BU isn’t leaving so no one should be concerned and if we are then part of my point is made. All in friendly banter!!!!!
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
As I mentioned, I don't think Illinois' historical data that is not specific to OA is that useful here, but even if you want to rely on them, your last sentence is getting at what I'm saying -- it doesn't appear that KY offers any advantage as a launching point for the next career step. So at worst they're a wash, but there is a good argument that IL might be better than KY as a launching off point in this particular context. What is more compelling to a school that just fired its HC and is looking for somebody to turn the ship around? An AC at an elite school doing elite things and helping it perform at a high level, or an AC at a once-downtrodden school doing elite things and helping it perform at a high level? I would argue it's the latter. Performing above expectations is more eye-catching than performing at expectations. You've also demonstrated that you can (help) do what most schools hiring new HCs are looking for.
Tony Yates - Cincinnati
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
"Top 10" should obviously be the goal, but the following stretches of final AP rankings were over multiple graduating classes and clearly show that it is possible to build a program up here and eventually achieve sustained success:
2005: #1
2004: #13
2003: #11
2002: #13
2001: #4
2000: #21
1999: NR
1998: #22
1997: #19
1989: #3
1988: #16
1987: #11
1986: #19
1985: #12
1984: #6
When you consider that every program will have to rebuild some years, it is clear that a competent staff here can create a damn good program. In both scenarios, we had an event that halted the progression (Deon Thomas situation and Self leaving, though Weber deserves credit for coaching that group!), but that doesn't have to be the future pattern. That is why fans are so excited by JW spending this kind of money. We are knocking at the door again (finished last year #21 and this year #2), and he realizes how important it is to stop anything from deterring our progression.
Deleted member 746963
D
Guest
Nah! KY and Cal I'm sure want to keep a low profile with the NCAA investigators. Also, Illinois needs OA and CC way more than KY needs them. 5 star recruits will still end up at KY no matter the assistants.
The Sprouting Divot
Invisible and Bulletproof
- Miracle Mile
Kindly, this notion lacks any connection to reality.
APS iMBA
- Urbana, IL
Half a page worth of replies have vanished
Pearl was a nothing assistant at a lesser school at the time he fabricated his story the NCAA then ran with about a bigger program.
Why would Kentucky coach want to punch down at Illinois? Gets them and Cal very little.
Pearl ate 10 years of his ambitions as reward — no big program would touch him after ratting a D-1 head coach out on fake evidence.
Why would Calipari do that? Everything to lose, not much to gain.
Ryllini
- Lombard
Well, if you look at what is happening at KY since OA left and what the reported offer was we had to make to get him to stay, says a lot about how much Cal wants him back. My comment was more of a passing thought, but something along with many thoughts that have passed through me head about this. KY will never be hit with anything, Illinois on the other hand, I don’t think would take much. Boom, neither would have OA.
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Good point on Tony Yates, kinda forgot about him. I appreciate you listing everywhere they eventually coached at, but I was talking about directly from Illinois. That is the whole point of what we are talking about. Gillispie doesn't get to Texas A&M or Kentucky without turning around UTEP first.
For context though, Cincinnati was in the Metro at the time Yates left. Appears similar in landscape to a coach today getting a job at a place like Western Kentucky or St. Louis.
Also, your line about more likely at Kansas, Kentucky, and UNC is my whole point. Ding, ding, ding.
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Maybe the difference is Kentucky got 5 star recruits when O A was there that turned out to be great players and now get 5 star players that are overrated. It could be due to O A recognizing real talent.
And I bet Kentucky has just as many, maybe more. That is what I'm saying.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
If we hadn't been dog crap for so long, UK making a power play for Antigua wouldn't be nearly as big a deal. Really, really happy our big $ boys see it the same way.
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