Coaching Discussion/Carousel

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#476      

Deleted member 747671

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I'm to the point where I can be talked into nearly any *realistic* hire (we aren't getting a sitting P5 guy OR a HS coach). What I will be most concerned/interested in is the staff. How much will the coach be given for his staff? Who can that coach bring in? The staff is huge at a school like Illinois. Zook, for what he lacked in game coaching, had connections throughout college football and was able to build much better staffs than what we have seen since. Beckman seemed to have decent connections but had trouble getting his guys to take the jobs. Lovie seemed to lack connections in the college game and it shows with what I would consider the worst staff of the past handful of HCs.

Random thought on Scheelhaase: I absolutely want him back here. He has the kind of leadership and integrity that will make him a great HC eventually. I have thought about just handing it over to him, but I worry about how he'd build a staff and the coaching "fraternity." He's so young that it would be critical to get a solid, experienced staff around him. Other coaches work for decades to move up the ladder, and I worry that they would be put off by such a young HC and many would not want to work under a guy they perceive as "not paying his dues." Just a random thought, but hell, money talks. I would imagine if he were to get a HC job, he'd want to grab an older, former HC as at least 1 of his coordinators, and try to build through some of the trees of his former coaches. Ultimately, I think the play on Scheelhaase is bring him in as either a Co-OC or a very highly paid QB/WR/RB coach. I don't envision handing play calling over to him, but I could see the Co-OC title given to him.

Another random thought: Have you guys seen the "consultants" at Alabama? You could start a decent staff with just those guys. Butch Jones with Charlie Strong or Mike Stoops. Hell, I could get behind something like that.
 
#477      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
KevinC said:
"Thomas E. Allen is an American college football coach serving as the head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers football team. Allen previously served as the defensive coordinator at Indiana and South Florida. He spent time as an assistant at Ole Miss, Arkansas State, and Drake, among other programs. Wikipedia"
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Looks like OP got Allen mixed up with the HS coach he replaced at Ben Davis HS in 2004 — long-time coach Dick Dullaghan. Well you know what they say , don’t let facts get in the way of a good story.
 
#478      

KevinC

KevinC
KevinC
CDRUSN said:
They are this year, ranked #12 nationally, and with bright prospects for the future. They are 6-1 in the Big Ten, beating Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State and losing to OSU by only one score. If that was the Illini, we would all be ecstatic. The current Indiana coach took over a program in even worse shape than ours, and built them into a winner, with positive growth each year. Most of his recruits are three stars, like ours, but the difference is he has maximized the performance of that talent.
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And he is willing to throw the football.
 
#480      

louisvilleillini

L
louisvilleillini
I remember hearing the news that JW hired Lovie. I thought he would turn the program around and not overnight. I thought he would reach into ILL and get some good players. But it hasn't worked out. We have missed out on some very good players. The last couple of coaches have all said, "put a fence around the state for recruits." It just hasn't worked. I don't think JW will let Lovie go this year. One reason is because of the Covid issue. My opinion is he needs to bring a strong def coordinator. The BT coaches know his def and how to attack it. The BT coaches have done a good with their attack. Just look at what MN did this year. Pass after pass for 10-12 yards. Lovie is truly a stand-up guy. Beat NW and the last game.
 
#481      

IllinoisOKC

IllinoisOKC
IllinoisOKC
Just curious, I would assume to think Bielema could bring in a solid staff if he was the next hc. Idk how much credit he should get for his time at wisconsin but he still was winning. I believe he recruited all top 30 classes at arkansas(though they were 9-11 ranked in the sec). So why do I feel not excited or disappointed reading into Bielema? Alex Grinch move the needle any? I think its hard to guage big 12 dc but hes got ou’s def looking good, not that ronnie perkins isnt a stud or anything. I mean brent venables was run out of town down here and now he’s considered one of the top if not the top dc in the country.
 
#482      

Deleted member 747671

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Deleted member 747671
IllinoisOKC said:
Just curious, I would assume to think Bielema could bring in a solid staff if he was the next hc. Idk how much credit he should get for his time at wisconsin but he still was winning. I believe he recruited all top 30 classes at arkansas(though they were 9-11 ranked in the sec). So why do I feel not excited or disappointed reading into Bielema? Alex Grinch move the needle any? I think its hard to guage big 12 dc but hes got ou’s def looking good, not that ronnie perkins isnt a stud or anything. I mean brent venables was run out of town down here and now he’s considered one of the top if not the top dc in the country.
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I've been kinda curious about Bielema too. It seems like he's kind of the opposite of Lovie in terms of perception, where Lovie seems like such a standup guy and Bielema is perceived as a jerk. But coaching-wise, he would seem like a decent choice. He's a B1G guy and has been around long enough to hopefully develop some solid connections with high quality assistants.

I don't know enough about Grinch. He seems to always have his name out there, but it seems like his recognition is more than his performance if that makes any sense. IDK, people seem to really like him so there's gotta be good reason behind it and he's worked with some of the best.
 
#483      

Ander1345

A
Ander1345
Bielema strikes me as a guy who got really lucky to have an incredible foundation on his staff. Once that was gone he did not do very well. Maybe that could have been Lovie for us, but we seem to strike out with assistants.
 
#484      

wma500

wma500
wma500
Buffalo is ranked in the AP, coming in at #24. Just ahead of Wisconsin, just behind Texas.

First time ever in program history. Leipold, year 6. I say that because to build Illinois football to where it can be, it's gonna take 5-7 years to do so.
 
#485      

Illinivek23

Illinivek23
Gurnee
Illinivek23
JW has to figure out if someone like Leipold (57 yo in May) can recruit at a B1G level that we need. He can obviously build and sustain a program, as well as in-game coach.
 
#487      

Deleted member 747671

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Deleted member 747671
Illinivek23 said:
JW has to figure out if someone like Leipold (57 yo in May) can recruit at a B1G level that we need. He can obviously build and sustain a program, as well as in-game coach.
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That's the million dollar question. Just did a quick look at his coaching staff. Lots of loyalty it seems, and maybe not surprising, a ton of midwest guys. There's actually more P5 experience than maybe I was expecting. His AHC/RC was RC at ND with Weis and has experience at Wisconsin among other places. His QB/Co-OC was QB coach under Kill at Min and NIU. Looks like both his coordinators followed from UWW. There's some good pieces to that staff that could translate to Illinois.
 
#488      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
wma500 said:
Buffalo is ranked in the AP, coming in at #24. Just ahead of Wisconsin, just behind Texas.

First time ever in program history. Leipold, year 6. I say that because to build Illinois football to where it can be, it's gonna take 5-7 years to do so.
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Yeah, but by year 3 he had them at .500 and by year 4 they had the most wins in program history (10).
 
#489      

Deleted member 747671

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Deleted member 747671
I feel like our timeline for expectations is really off, and probably rightly so based on the last few coaches. But it's not that hard to get to 5-6 wins in a season when you factor in 3 weak non-con teams. Every big ten team has at least 2 conference wins this year. Should that be expected in a new coach's first year? No, but it's not some impossibility. You want a coach that can compete and win in the B1G. We should have a decent idea of if that's possible in year 2, and real results in year 3. I don't think that's unfair.
 
#490      

Deleted member 746648

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Deleted member 746648
wma500 said:
Buffalo is ranked in the AP, coming in at #24. Just ahead of Wisconsin, just behind Texas.

First time ever in program history. Leipold, year 6. I say that because to build Illinois football to where it can be, it's gonna take 5-7 years to do so.
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I don't believe that we are that far off from competing. In terms of wins and losses this program is no better now than when Bill cubit was in charge but this roster is a lot more talented than they were in 2015. If we can find a coach that can elevate talent like indiana has, we could finish towards the top of the division. Lovie just isn't that guy.
 
#491      

GrangeDidn'tWearGray

G
GrangeDidn'tWearGray
In analyzing the state of the Illinois football program under Coach Smith, it is important to establish a uniform baseline against which the program’s recent performance can be measured.* I have chosen the team’s record against its BigTen West division rivals as that reference point, both because it is the one scheduling constant and because these are the teams against which the Illini compete in order to earn an opportunity to win the conference title.

The current division compositions were established before the 2014 season upon Maryland and Rutgers joining the BigTen. Listed below, are the division wins and losses by season.

Season

2014: Wins: Minnesota Northwestern

Losses: Iowa Nebraska Purdue Wisconsin

2015: Wins: Nebraska Purdue

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Northwestern Wisconsin

2016: Wins:

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin

2017: Wins:

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin

2018: Wins: Minnesota

Losses: Iowa Nebraska Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin

2019: Wins: Purdue Wisconsin

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Northwestern

2020: Wins: Nebraska

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Purdue Wisconsin



Division Record (2014-2015) 4-8 Beckman (2014) Cubit (2015)

Division Record (2016-current) 4-25 Smith



* The BigTen now plays nine conference games instead of the eight-game slate played through 2015. Meanwhile, the cross-over matchups have varied from the Ohio State and Penn State duo in both 2014 and 2015 to the good fortune Smith has had in facing Rutgers, clearly the worst program in the conference, all five years of his tenure. (Smith is 4-1 against Rutgers.)
 
#492      

Dr.O

D
Dr.O
GrangeDidn'tWearGray said:
In analyzing the state of the Illinois football program under Coach Smith, it is important to establish a uniform baseline against which the program’s recent performance can be measured.* I have chosen the team’s record against its BigTen West division rivals as that reference point, both because it is the one scheduling constant and because these are the teams against which the Illini compete in order to earn an opportunity to win the conference title.

The current division compositions were established before the 2014 season upon Maryland and Rutgers joining the BigTen. Listed below, are the division wins and losses by season.

Season

2014: Wins: Minnesota Northwestern

Losses: Iowa Nebraska Purdue Wisconsin

2015: Wins: Nebraska Purdue

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Northwestern Wisconsin

2016: Wins:

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin

2017: Wins:

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin

2018: Wins: Minnesota

Losses: Iowa Nebraska Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin

2019: Wins: Purdue Wisconsin

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Northwestern

2020: Wins: Nebraska

Losses: Iowa Minnesota Purdue Wisconsin



Division Record (2014-2015) 4-8 Beckman (2014) Cubit (2015)

Division Record (2016-current) 4-25 Smith



* The BigTen now plays nine conference games instead of the eight-game slate played through 2015. Meanwhile, the cross-over matchups have varied from the Ohio State and Penn State duo in both 2014 and 2015 to the good fortune Smith has had in facing Rutgers, clearly the worst program in the conference, all five years of his tenure. (Smith is 4-1 against Rutgers.)
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This is unacceptable and a complete embarrassment!
The University should be ashamed for letting this go as far as it has. The AD, school chancellor and president should also be blamed for not taking any actions!
 
#493      

illini0440

illini0440
illini0440
WINTer said:
I feel like our timeline for expectations is really off, and probably rightly so based on the last few coaches. But it's not that hard to get to 5-6 wins in a season when you factor in 3 weak non-con teams. Every big ten team has at least 2 conference wins this year. Should that be expected in a new coach's first year? No, but it's not some impossibility. You want a coach that can compete and win in the B1G. We should have a decent idea of if that's possible in year 2, and real results in year 3. I don't think that's unfair.
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You either want a staff that can recruit like no other or can coach the hell out of their kids and scheme. Both can work and this feels like the latter which we haven't had since maybe Mike White?
 
#494      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
Deleted member 747671
illini0440 said:
You either want a staff that can recruit like no other or can coach the hell out of their kids and scheme. Both can work and this feels like the latter which we haven't had since maybe Mike White?
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Guessing you meant to quote one of the Leipold posts. Yeah he definitely feels more like a develop, coach, and scheme guy and his staff reflects that. If you can take that foundation and add a Scheelhaase and a couple recruiter types, I think you'd be in very good shape.
 
#495      

illini0440

illini0440
illini0440
WINTer said:
Guessing you meant to quote one of the Leipold posts. Yeah he definitely feels more like a develop, coach, and scheme guy and his staff reflects that. If you can take that foundation and add a Scheelhaase and a couple recruiter types, I think you'd be in very good shape.
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oops, yeah my bad lol
 
#496      

EthanM

E
EthanM
WINTer said:
I'm to the point where I can be talked into nearly any *realistic* hire (we aren't getting a sitting P5 guy OR a HS coach). What I will be most concerned/interested in is the staff. How much will the coach be given for his staff? Who can that coach bring in? The staff is huge at a school like Illinois. Zook, for what he lacked in game coaching, had connections throughout college football and was able to build much better staffs than what we have seen since. Beckman seemed to have decent connections but had trouble getting his guys to take the jobs. Lovie seemed to lack connections in the college game and it shows with what I would consider the worst staff of the past handful of HCs.

Random thought on Scheelhaase: I absolutely want him back here. He has the kind of leadership and integrity that will make him a great HC eventually. I have thought about just handing it over to him, but I worry about how he'd build a staff and the coaching "fraternity." He's so young that it would be critical to get a solid, experienced staff around him. Other coaches work for decades to move up the ladder, and I worry that they would be put off by such a young HC and many would not want to work under a guy they perceive as "not paying his dues." Just a random thought, but hell, money talks. I would imagine if he were to get a HC job, he'd want to grab an older, former HC as at least 1 of his coordinators, and try to build through some of the trees of his former coaches. Ultimately, I think the play on Scheelhaase is bring him in as either a Co-OC or a very highly paid QB/WR/RB coach. I don't envision handing play calling over to him, but I could see the Co-OC title given to him.

Another random thought: Have you guys seen the "consultants" at Alabama? You could start a decent staff with just those guys. Butch Jones with Charlie Strong or Mike Stoops. Hell, I could get behind something like that.
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NS is a WR coach at the moment. He needs to start calling plays as OC somewhere before he can even be in the conversation for head coach here. Preferably he'd get a head coach position at a non-P5 job first and be successful there too, but successful OC at a P5 program would be just almost as good. Hiring a 30 year old WR coach that's never called plays to be the head coach at a P5 program is up there in the same tier as hiring a HS coach as far as career suicide for an AD goes.
 
#497      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
Deleted member 747671
EthanM said:
NS is a WR coach at the moment. He needs to start calling plays as OC somewhere before he can even be in the conversation for head coach here. Preferably he'd get a head coach position at a non-P5 job first and be successful there too, but successful OC at a P5 program would be just almost as good. Hiring a 30 year old WR coach that's never called plays to be the head coach at a P5 program is up there in the same tier as hiring a HS coach as far as career suicide for an AD goes.
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I pretty much agree with all this. I didn't really ever consider him a serious option, more of a "couldn't be any worse than what we have now" kind of pissed-off fan option lol. That being said, there are examples of HCs that were never coordinators, such as Dabo Swinney, but those guys have had a lot more experience than Nate, and I'm guessing most don't work out.
 
#498      

KevinC

KevinC
KevinC
EthanM said:
NS is a WR coach at the moment. He needs to start calling plays as OC somewhere before he can even be in the conversation for head coach here. Preferably he'd get a head coach position at a non-P5 job first and be successful there too, but successful OC at a P5 program would be just almost as good. Hiring a 30 year old WR coach that's never called plays to be the head coach at a P5 program is up there in the same tier as hiring a HS coach as far as career suicide for an AD goes.
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There are a number of head coaches that have never called plays out there including a couple that have been mentioned on this site for the IL job.
 
#499      

ILLINIShox24

ILLINIShox24
Orange Krush '04 & '05
ILLINIShox24
I just want to be able to point to a portion of the game that we do better than our average peers. Be good at something. I would be fine running the triple option if it worked well and we occasionally pulled an upset. Just do something well. At least then recruits to point to an identity.
 
#500      

illini0440

illini0440
illini0440
Shane Beamer has never called plays and I really like that hire for SC. That being said he is an elite recruiter and has been around a lot of successful programs and Hc's and been a big part in those HC's being successful.
 
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