we had a roster capable of winning far more than 4 games
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It’s not a good team
No, actually we didn't.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
One could interpret it that way, and I would disagree.
What I see is a coach who has a proven, consistent track record of winning contested recruitments for very talented players, and then a proven, consistent track record of deploying those players in a way that maximizes their abilities, hides their weaknesses, and is well game-planned for opponents. He's a B1G level chess player, I don't know how anyone could deny that, and if you can get players *and* are a B1G level chess player you're one of the top guys.
The current team is a dumpster fire and that's Underwood's fault, full stop. The buck stops with the head coach in college sports, if there's one thing I have always remained rock-solid consistent on in my years of blather around here it's that.
But if there's a second thing I've always been consistent on it's finding it reductive and tiresome that when we get into these "is the coach good or bad?" discussions, that every single possible data point has to be spun in favor or against. Either WeberZookGroceLovieBielemaUnderwood has done absolutely everything correct and nothing that has gone wrong has ever been their fault not even one time, or every single success was the product of some other factor that can be explained away. That's such brainless reasoning.
The story of Underwood at Illinois is so clearly, so self-evidently one of adjusting and learning and improving, as opposed to one where everything was correct at the start and it only took time to build. It's possible that those adjustments were a one-time deal and it's all downhill from here. That is a possible outcome. But I think the far more likely outcome is that Brad's sleeve hasn't run out of tricks just yet.
Agreed. On paper, that was not a strong. roster. Black was top 50ish. Smith was top 100. Jordan, Lucas, and Frazier were top 150.
Groce's 8-10 final season was pretty much indicative of his career at Illinois. It was pretty apparent as long as he was coaching all we were ever going to do was finish around 500 every year. He was here longer than he should have been.
There were games he couldn't make a point blank layup. He definitely struggled in his final season in my recollection.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
Not to mention playing the 4 never seemed to work for him. I think (could be wrong) he’s strictly playing center in the G league.
Parts of his game did regress. (Offensively)
Georgi’s: defense, and overall footwork were underrated. He was willing to adapt
and did what was asked for the good of the team. It had to have been a helluva of an adjustment but he did it anyway.
He went from being a guy showing off
an array of McHale-like skills…nice turnaround, a little semi-hook, some nice up and under moves…he was pretty good from about 15 feet too…really everything you’d wanna see from a fitness-y BIG man.
(He had some real nice touch.)
I think I remember him scoring 30 as a freshman…(I’m too lazy to look it up.)
But anyways, he went from being, arguably the main offensive weapon on a team that was improving but struggling…to more of a role player on a better team.
Like I said..He had a lot of back to the basket skills that he suddenly wasn’t using any where near as much. (But he did also have some face-up abilities as well.) He was a BIG who was a good passer; so it was a no-brainer to give that hi-low thing with Kofi a go. It did not go off without a hitch as you might remember…
*He had some rough games…missing lay-ups and that got in is head, and that snowballed for a while.
But yeah… the way he was utilized was obviously different post Kofi.
A.) A facilitator to Kofi in the Hi-Lo stuff we
did a lot then B.) A back up for Kofi the other half of the time
This thread is absolute crazy-town! I won’t be visiting it again.
If you want to go back to Groce you’re a glutton for punishment. The rise in the level of talent on-court and on-staff alone is enough for me to be happy to have him.
Yes. His 2nd year, he played a lot more with Kofi and his shooting percentage dropped. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/giorgi-bezhanishvili-1.html
He absolutely regressed; he had some games as a freshman in which he was almost unstoppable offensively - I'm thinking specifically about the Rutgers game. His freshman year was far and away his best year
What a goofy take. This thread is off the rails.
I never said I wanted to go back to Groce. But until we see improvement this year, it's reasonable to wonder whether BU's success here was completely tied to having a generational talent in Kofi Cockburn. And even with 2 studs in Ayo and Kofi and a strong supporting cast, our inability to get past the round of 32 is concerning.
I hope we turn things around this year and I'm proven wrong. We have outstanding talent and there is no reason we shouldn't have a very successful year.
The Galloping Ghost
- Washington, DC
You need to look at his numbers. Yes he played fewer minutes, but all of his stats offensively and defensively were better with exception of rebounds, assists and fouls. Better, fgm, fg%, ftm, ft%, stl, blk, pts, ortg, drtg.
GB's offensive production predictably fell off after Kofi joined the team. I don't think necessarily reflects a regression on GB's part. More of a change in role.
A good player on a bad team can be a mediocre player on a good team, as was the case with GB.
you could make the same (silly) argument with Trent, scored a ton his FR year then peeled back. Worked out fine for him. Now he puts up video game numbers overseas.
sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story.
Agreed. I’m pretty sure we were picked to finish 10th-12th in conference in the preseason polls (not that they’re perfect), but gives you some idea of what the media and coaches thought of our talent level, because I don’t think they were sleeping on Underwood.
What are you talking about? His ppg dropped from 12.8 as a freshman to 6.8 to 5.1. Rebounds dropped as well. And actually his minutes played was about the same.
His minutes fell rather drastically his third and final season.
drsmitty74
- Rochester
WTH is going on in this thread?
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