InDaAZ
- Eugene, Oregon
Apparently, Giorgi B would be a candidate for the Texas job if only he had better production his junior year… Or he likes to ride on carousels?WTH is going on in this thread?
Apparently, Giorgi B would be a candidate for the Texas job if only he had better production his junior year… Or he likes to ride on carousels?WTH is going on in this thread?
Close. Underwood is apparently not a candidate for the Texas job, because GB allegedly regressed as a player.Apparently, Giorgi B would be a candidate for the Texas job if only he had better production his junior year… Or he likes to ride on carousels?
Meanwhile, Hall and Oates are on the bottom of their list. But I can’t go for that; no can-do.I think Musselman and Oats are tops on their list
You can’t be serious with this?Groce was 8-10 in conference play his last year here, BU was 4-14 his first year. Just sayin....
That was Mark Smith experiment class, right?BU didn't have a good roster his first year. Our best player was Leron Black, the 6-6 center followed by a freshmen Trent Frazier.
By no stretch of the imagination was that a talented roster, sorry.No, actually we had a lot of talent and appropriately high expectations in Year 1 for Underwood (as we did in Groce's final season), and it was a total catastrophe and unambiguous coaching failure.
Then there was a total roster reshuffle, and we started year 2 with a team way too young and inexperienced to meaningfully compete against the brutal non-conference schedule that we have come to know as Underwood's preference.
But over the course of that season those young guys grew up, and it was obvious to see that we were competitive in the Big Ten and had promise for the future. 1-7 start in B1G play, 6-6 finish, beating multiple ranked teams.
Lots more to the story than that, Giorgi was such a huge part of that Year 2 improvement but declined from there, Kofi necessarily changed the way we play, etc, but we won a bunch of Big Ten games that second year showing the patient finally had a pulse.
But Underwood fell on his face and failed his first year here, with a good roster. That's what gives me confidence in him now. Once again we've gotten into a bad cul-de-sac where the group of players and the system has just collapsed. But BU has found his way out of that before, and I am confident he'll do it again.
Hey now, easy AZ. You’ve got a point.Apparently, Giorgi B would be a candidate for the Texas job if only he had better production his junior year… Or he likes to ride on carousels?
If Kofi is a generational talent why isn't he in the NBA? No offense to Kofi but this take is poor to put it kindly. You can make a better argument that BU has had over achieving teams.I never said I wanted to go back to Groce. But until we see improvement this year, it's reasonable to wonder whether BU's success here was completely tied to having a generational talent in Kofi Cockburn. And even with 2 studs in Ayo and Kofi and a strong supporting cast, our inability to get past the round of 32 is concerning.
I hope we turn things around this year and I'm proven wrong. We have outstanding talent and there is no reason we shouldn't have a very successful year.
That's such a perfect example of using hindsight bias to totally mangle a narrative.it's reasonable to wonder whether BU's success here was completely tied to having a generational talent in Kofi Cockburn.
I am not sure why people say Giorgi B. regressed. He was relegated to a reserve role behind the best low post center in the country.
And this is all I'm really saying about that first Underwood team. They looked like they were doing 3/4 speed Stephen F Austin drills all year, none of it was working, and our trap-happy defense made us a layup line, that was the single most dunked-on team I've ever seen.we had a roster capable of winning far more than 4 games
BBIQ, As a die hard i can justify almost anything but Kofi was absolutely a generational talent for the Illini. He’s the most dominant big man in Illini history, a 2x All-American, and his name is in the rafters no matter how you slice it. Underwood has said he was a great safety net because he was 20 and 10 nightly. Kofi got an astounding offer in terms of NIL to stay for one more year. I’m pretty sure a player that ticks all those boxes would be, to quote BU, “elite”.If Kofi is a generational talent why isn't he in the NBA? No offense to Kofi but this take is poor to put it kindly. You can make a better argument that BU has had over achieving teams.
I am not sure how far off topic it was. It does show how we get off topic.Hey now, easy AZ. You’ve got a point.
FWLIW..I do regret my part in in the Georgi B. Tangent. I got a little carried away; and should of had more self awareness of what thread I was actually in. Lol. I’ll take it as constructive criticism.
Having said that, I’m in good company…virtually everybody that frequents this site has got off topic at one point or another.
Nichi-I can’t figure you though, you did as much or more to derail the thread as anybody and you’re playing self-appointed “topical” traffic cop at the same time?
As I said his minutes dropped but all the stats I mentioned were better per possession. Its all on sports-reference.com for you to see.What are you talking about? His ppg dropped from 12.8 as a freshman to 6.8 to 5.1. Rebounds dropped as well. And actually his minutes played was about the same.
I think the biggest thing he did in that lab was upgrade the talent level by bringing in Ayo.And this is all I'm really saying about that first Underwood team. They looked like they were doing 3/4 speed Stephen F Austin drills all year, none of it was working, and our trap-happy defense made us a layup line, that was the single most dunked-on team I've ever seen.
Professor Brad got in the lab and fixed it. He's back in the lab again right now.
I dunno either. LolI am not sure how far off topic it was. It does show how we get off topic.
Is Underwood a candidate for openings elsewhere? The discussion then strays into how well he develops players, was Kofi really a generational talent, etc. It evolves into a referendum on Underwood's coaching ability.
Elsewhere, someone compares this team to the Flying Illini. There is a tangential discussion about the 1989 team.
Are these valid tangents, or off topic? I am not sure.
He was the most dominant player in the Big 10 all 3 seasons he was here. Teams had to completely build their game plans around him. I'm 60 and he is far and away the most impactful single player we have had in my lifetime.If Kofi is a generational talent why isn't he in the NBA? No offense to Kofi but this take is poor to put it kindly. You can make a better argument that BU has had over achieving teams.
The one year we had Kofi and didn't have Ayo we won the Big 10 title. The one year we had Ayo and no Kofi we went 7-13 in the conference. If we are strictly discussing the games themselves, Kofi was far, far more impactful here than was Ayo.That's such a perfect example of using hindsight bias to totally mangle a narrative.
Ayo Dosunmu, one of the best and most important players in the history of the program, gets written out of the Underwood story because his three seasons don't match The Three Good Seasons. Silliness.
True, and he became a lesser player in that transition, eventually just walking away from the team. Whereas Trent Frazier got forced out of being a primary offensive option by Ayo and his game totally flowered.
And this is all I'm really saying about that first Underwood team. They looked like they were doing 3/4 speed Stephen F Austin drills all year, none of it was working, and our trap-happy defense made us a layup line, that was the single most dunked-on team I've ever seen.
Professor Brad got in the lab and fixed it. He's back in the lab again right now.
Strictly discussing the (W-L results of the) games themselves is a silly mode of analysis.The one year we had Kofi and didn't have Ayo we won the Big 10 title. The one year we had Ayo and no Kofi we went 7-13 in the conference. If we are strictly discussing the games themselves, Kofi was far, far more impactful here than was Ayo.
I did the sports-reference. Here's what the numbers show. It's certainly possible to argue whether he regressed (I believe he did) and who or what was the cause (I have no idea) but the numbers dropped. Let's get our facts straight.As I said his minutes dropped but all the stats I mentioned were better per possession. Its all on sports-reference.com for you to see.
Games | Minutes | PPG | PP40 | RPG | RP40 | |
18-19 | 33 | 862 | 12.5 | 19.2 | 5.2 | 8.0 |
19-20 | 31 | 718 | 6.8 | 11.7 | 4.8 | 8.2 |
20-21 | 31 | 449 | 5.1 | 14.2 | 2.7 | 7.4 |
I don't count PPG or RPG when minutes are reduced. Look at the number per possession as I said in the previous post. Then we can talk about it.I did the sports-reference. Here's what the numbers show. It's certainly possible to argue whether he regressed (I believe he did) and who or what was the cause (I have no idea) but the numbers dropped. Let's get our facts straight.
Games Minutes PPG PP40 RPG RP40 18-19 33 862 12.5 19.2 5.2 8.0 19-20 31 718 6.8 11.7 4.8 8.2 20-21 31 449 5.1 14.2 2.7 7.4
I won't tolerate any Giorgi slander here.
Okay, I'm looking and now posting. I'm not sure how you say he somehow showed improvement with the possession stat. I'm at a loss.I don't count PPG or RPG when minutes are reduced. Look at the number per possession as I said in the previous post. Then we can talk about it.
2p% | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | PTS | |
18-19 | 58.2% | 11.3 | 1.7 | 1.4 | 1.7 | 27.1 |
19-20 | 45.6% | 12.2 | 4.0 | 0.2 | 1.1 | 17.3 |
20-21 | 54.7% | 10.4 | 1.6 | 0.9 | 1.3 | 19.9 |
Giorgi had some great moves in the post. Outside of that, where he was increasingly asked to play, not so much. BU made it point to say he'd figure out a way to continue to use Giorgi's strengths, but it just wasn't possible. On top of that, I think there was a consensus that Kofi would not be such a monster his freshman year.My hypothesis is that Giorgi is such a weird player (a term I use with the utmost affection) that when he was given free rein to let his freak flag fly for a team that needed offense and was at the bottom of the standings not getting everyone's best scout and effort every night, the production that first year went above what his actual ability level was.
He used to try things we hadn't seen him do before on a game-by-game basis. And defenders would be looking back to the bench like "that wasn't on the scouting report, what am I supposed to do?"
Dude, are you comparing a freshman Ayo against a junior Kofi?The one year we had Kofi and didn't have Ayo we won the Big 10 title. The one year we had Ayo and no Kofi we went 7-13 in the conference. If we are strictly discussing the games themselves, Kofi was far, far more impactful here than was Ayo.