College Hoops Coaching Carousel

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#476      

the national

the national
the Front Range
the national
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Officially official
 
#478      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Fighter of the Nightman said:
However, is PSU really as bad of a spot as we think it is? As Gritty also pointed out, the historic success of a program arguably plays less of a role in what the "good jobs" are with every passing year (would you rather be a Utah or Auburn in today's climate?), and I wonder if PSU's ceiling is not a lot higher than people might think.
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The thing with PSU is that the issue of their fans not caring has proven to be really, really stubborn in a way it hasn't been for, say, Rutgers or Nebraska.

I wonder how much that's related to how isolated State College is. There really isn't a basketball arena's worth of fans that can make an easy trip of it on a Wednesday night. Central Illinois isn't some metropolis, but there are way, way more people than are anywhere near PSU. The logistics of their 7 home football games a year are crazy, but those are a different kind of event.
 
#479      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
That just seems so awkward and weird to me as a Big Ten fan, as did Beard going from TTU to Texas even if it was his alma mater. :ROFLMAO: Has there been any modern example of a coach going from one Big Ten school to another?! Here are the last two hires for every Big Ten school:

Illinois: Brad Underwood (Oklahoma State) and John Groce (Ohio)
Indiana: Mike Woodson (assistant in NBA) and Archie Miller (Dayton)
Iowa: Fran McCaffrey (Sienna) and Todd Lickliter (Butler)
Maryland: Kevin Willard (Seton Hall) and Mark Turgeon (Texas A&M)
Michigan: Juwan Howard (assistant in NBA) and John Beilein (West Virginia)
Michigan State: Tom Izzo (internal assistant) and Jud Heathcote (Montana)
Minnesota: Ben Johnson (assistant at Xavier) and Richard Pitino (FIU)
Nebraska: Fred Hoiberg (interim career period) and Tim Miles (Colorado State)
Northwestern: Chris Collins (assistant at Duke) and Bill Carmody (Princeton)
Ohio State: Chris Holtmann (Butler) and Thad Matta (Xavier)
Penn State: Micah Shrewsberry (assistant at Purdue) and Pat Chambers (Boston U)
Purdue: Purdue (internal assistant) and Gene Keady (Western Kentucky)
Rutgers: Steve Pikiell (Stony Brook) and Eddie Jordan (assistant in NBA)
Wisconsin: Greg Gard (internal assistant) and Bo Ryan (UW-Milwaukee)

So, the vast majority seem to be promoting internal assistants, hiring current NBA assistants with a past connection to the program or going the traditional "find the trending mid-major coach" approach. The following are examples of "splash hires," taking a head coach from a successful program of theoretically equal standing:

Illinois swiping Underwood from Oklahoma State
Maryland swiping Willard from Seton Hall
Maryland swiping Turgeon from Texas A&M
Michigan swiping Beilein from West Virginia

However, nobody has just jumped from one Big Ten job to another ... it practically seems like it goes against some fraternal code, haha.

P.S. For the silly talk of us being a "stepping stone job" sometimes, Illinois and Maryland appear to be the only programs on that list able to swipe coaches from Power Five teams multiple times in the past 30+ years (with us taking Kruger from Florida)!
 
#481      

illini510

I
illini510
The more I thought about it, the more I would think that DePaul should cut bait with Stubblefield and go after Shrewsberry. But, knowing DePaul, they won't think outside the box like that
 
#482      

IlliniShelt

I
IlliniShelt
WhiteHorseWings said:
I know this comes from a big ten guy but I fail to see how providence is a better gig than PSU
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PSU hoops will always live in the shadow of PSU football. Providence will never have that issue. The Big East is still a very good hoops conference. I'm not saying he goes but there are advantages to Providence.
 
#483      

WeWillWhen

WeWillWhen
WeWillWhen
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Mostly agree. I am really surprised Georgetown has not built a smaller arena "with character" in a better location, and then they could have like one big game per year in the NBA venue as more of an event (not too dissimilar from our United Center tradition).
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Its my understanding that it is very difficult to build anything new on the Georgetown campus due to resistance from the neighbors. Also, the campus is boxed in on two sides with a park and river. There has been some preliminary discussions over the years about renovating the old, existing on-campus gym into something that could seat around 6000-7000 within the existing walls/footprint, but those discussions have gone nowhere. Sounds similar to the DePaul situation, despite the wealthier alumni base.
 
#485      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
ChiefGritty said:
The thing with PSU is that the issue of their fans not caring has proven to be really, really stubborn in a way it hasn't been for, say, Rutgers or Nebraska.

I wonder how much that's related to how isolated State College is. There really isn't a basketball arena's worth of fans that can make an easy trip of it on a Wednesday night. Central Illinois isn't some metropolis, but there are way, way more people than are anywhere near PSU. The logistics of their 7 home football games a year are crazy, but those are a different kind of event.
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Yeah, I am not familiar with Pennsylvania, but it really seems to be the driving distance to population centers that does them in:

City/Town: 128k for Champaign-Urbana vs. 39k for State College
County: 205k for Champaign County, IL vs. 158k for Centre County, PA
MSA: 223k for Champaign vs. 157k for State College
Within 1.5 Hours*: 1.53 million for Champaign vs. 736k for State College
Dist. to Essential Metros: 1 hr 45 min to SW Chicago suburbs vs. 2 hr 20 min. to eastern Pittsburgh suburbs and 2 hr 50 min to NW Philadelphia suburbs

* Very estimated based on county population totals and does not include any Indiana population for Champaign

Again, I am not that knowledgeable about Pennsylvania, but I guess there is also a huge problem for PSU that we do not face - a presumably very large group of people who are Villanova fans for hoops and PSU fans for football. Our football fans are more apathetic than our hoops fans (understandably so), but I have hardly ever met, for example, an Illini basketball/Notre Dame football fan. I'm sure they exist, but they don't exist in the massive numbers you see with PSU/Villanova in Philly or Nebraska/Creighton in Omaha. I'm sure that's difficult for PSU hoops to overcome, too.
 
#486      

Overleaf

Overleaf
Overleaf
WeWillWhen said:
Its my understanding that it is very difficult to build anything new on the Georgetown campus due to resistance from the neighbors. Also, the campus is boxed in on two sides with a park and river. There has been some preliminary discussions over the years about renovating the old, existing on-campus gym into something that could seat around 6000-7000 within the existing walls/footprint, but those discussions have gone nowhere. Sounds similar to the DePaul situation, despite the wealthier alumni base.
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They just have to play nice with the Mayor's office to get those zoning permits approved.
 
#487      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Yeah, I am not familiar with Pennsylvania, but it really seems to be the driving distance to population centers that does them in:

City/Town: 128k for Champaign-Urbana vs. 39k for State College
County: 205k for Champaign County, IL vs. 158k for Centre County, PA
MSA: 223k for Champaign vs. 157k for State College
Within 1.5 Hours*: 1.53 million for Champaign vs. 736k for State College
Dist. to Essential Metros: 1 hr 45 min to SW Chicago suburbs vs. 2 hr 20 min. to eastern Pittsburgh suburbs and 2 hr 50 min to NW Philadelphia suburbs

* Very estimated based on county population totals and does not include any Indiana population for Champaign

Again, I am not that knowledgeable about Pennsylvania, but I guess there is also a huge problem for PSU that we do not face - a presumably very large group of people who are Villanova fans for hoops and PSU fans for football. Our football fans are more apathetic than our hoops fans (understandably so), but I have hardly ever met, for example, an Illini basketball/Notre Dame football fan. I'm sure they exist, but they don't exist in the massive numbers you see with PSU/Villanova in Philly or Nebraska/Creighton in Omaha. I'm sure that's difficult for PSU hoops to overcome, too.
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There are more PSU people in DC and fewer in Philly than you'd think. PSU masquerades as a real Big Ten school relatively well, but they are an Eastern school, and like other Eastern schools their fanbase doesn't really conform to state borders.
 
#488      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
ChiefGritty said:
There are more PSU people in DC and fewer in Philly than you'd think. PSU masquerades as a real Big Ten school relatively well, but they are an Eastern school, and like other Eastern schools their fanbase doesn't really conform to state borders.
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Yeah, my aunt lives in NOVA and says there are a lot of Penn State people. I also heard once that there are a decent number of Maryland hoops fans that cheer for PSU in football ... PUKE.
 
#490      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Overleaf said:
They just have to play nice with the Mayor's office to get those zoning permits approved.
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Ha, not happening. Georgetown the neighborhood and its surrounding area is one of the most implacably development-resistant communities on earth, certainly among those within the actual borders of a major city. The DC Metro doesn't even go through there. DC is cool, but it's a weird place.
 
#492      

Indy Illini Fan

Indy Illini Fan
Indy Illini Fan
sbillini said:
www.espn.com

Anderson to file lawsuit vs. St. John's over firing

Mike Anderson plans to file an arbitration lawsuit against St. John's after he was terminated "for cause."
www.espn.com www.espn.com


I don't follow SJ's closely. Are the allegations the school's making real? or are they trying to scrape together the cash so they can afford Pitino? If the latter, then not sure I'd want to go to into a financially tricky situation if i'm Pitino.
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Anderson will sue and they’ll settle … Trying to save money to pay Pitino …
 
#496      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
ChiefGritty said:
What I mean about conferences being dead is that I don't think conferences being culturally or tactically distinct from one another is going to be a meaningful part of college basketball going forward, whereas it really was for many years. Big Ten basketball was different from ACC basketball which was different from Big East basketball. That's gone. It's all a hodgepodge now.
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That is true - Conference Cultural Flavors are going away. And the overall structure we'll get might be something like MLB... a big American League and a big National League... and some high-'minor' leagues that will regularly break through and do well in the Big Tournament like now. Or one day... maybe just one great big Super League (with sub-conferences) with media rights divided among the major media networks like is the case with the NFL. Really, without the 'flavors' it really isn't necessary to have conferences (at the highest level of College Ball where travel is not an issue as it might be for smaller guys) except for the present requirement of media rights and the pay pots divided up among member institutions. But all that money stuff can be worked out to accommodate a Super League. Even the AL and NL in MLB have found the wisdom of playing games against each other (to get away from the 'flavor' model) during the regular season and with expanded number of playoff (and pay-off) teams.

In short... College Ball has been/is morphing into a version of NBA ball. Players acting more like Sole Proprietorships and seeking the best financial deals for themselves and with much less loyalty to any particular institution. And as I said in a prior post... less incentive to listen to Coaches who are seeing their influence over players diminishing even as their coaching pay might increase. (But as a result of this trend, perhaps that too will change in the future?).
 
#497      

One Man Fast Break

O
One Man Fast Break
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Within 1.5 Hours*: 1.53 million for Champaign vs. 736k for State College
Dist. to Essential Metros: 1 hr 45 min to SW Chicago suburbs vs. 2 hr 20 min. to eastern Pittsburgh suburbs and 2 hr 50 min to NW Philadelphia suburbs

* Very estimated based on county population totals and does not include any Indiana population for Champaign
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This is the biggest problem, they just don't have enough people nearby to support a power conference basketball program. The students on campus will cheer on a good team, but you need more than that. Like you said, even getting the farther out alumni, Greater Pittsburgh is only about 2.3 million (27th) and FARTHER than Greater Chicago is which has 9.5 million (3rd). They need Greater Philadelphia which is REALLY far. Football you can plan for, but a random college basketball game? No chance. At least not without like a top 10 team or 10 years of sustained success.
 
#499      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Yeah, my aunt lives in NOVA and says there are a lot of Penn State people. I also heard once that there are a decent number of Maryland hoops fans that cheer for PSU in football ... PUKE.
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The two worst kinds of college fans:

1. Fans of a football factory for football and a basketball factory for basketball
2. Fans who root for a powerhouse school when they went to (or are even currently attending) a different major conference school.

And of course you can even get horrific combinations of the two. And it's even WORSE if the school they actually attend is some highfalutin private school.

I once met a guy who was an undergrad student at Vanderbilt, a Florida football fan and a Duke basketball fan. Just a disgusting person.
 
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