If you look at the Self/early Weber years, we won the conference 4 times and got 2nd twice in those 6 years.
That would be why Weber gets so much hate. Lon built us back up. Self took is to the top, Weber maintained it with Self's players, but he couldn't maintain the talent level to keep us at the top. Now no one will say we should win the conference every year, though we damn well should, but dropping to the middle of the pack was not welcomed on the heels of such success.
John Groce was not good, but Groce was not the problem. Mike Thomas was the problem. That was the hire that set us up for the fall we had in both Football and Basketball. He hired a defensive minded head coach who had terrible defenses. Thus it was a shock to no one that Matt Campbell, the OC, was actually responsible for Toledo's wins, proven by his success at Iowa State and Beckman's failure. Groce never finished better than 3rd in the MAC, but Thomas thought this was the right guy. Groce took the losses, but Thomas was to blame.