Conference Realignment

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#626      

Illinois_2_AZ

Illinois_2_AZ
Illinois_2_AZ
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#629      

Dkayak

D
Dkayak
Sports Illustrated: TV Killed the PAC 12

The last four paragraphs sound especially grim:

“If anything, the Big Ten’s breaking the 16-team conference ceiling could trigger further movement toward the long-prophesied consolidation of power into two or three megaconferences. The Big Ten and SEC can become the AFC and NFC, perhaps shedding ancient members and adding more lucrative new ones. It would be NFL Lite, with less talent, having sucked nearly all the charm out of the college game.

In Network, business tycoon Arthur Jensen launches a towering sermon to drill into TV show host Beale how the world really works: ‘There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichsmarks, rins, rubles, pounds and shekels.’

In college sports, there are no regions. There are no loyalties. And now there is no West, in terms of having its own home base and cultural center. There is only one holistic system of systems, and the system is driven by choices people make when they turn on the TV on Saturday afternoons.

Big ratings rule everything. Lousy ratings are lethal. Write it on the Pac-12’s tombstone.”
 
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#630      

Bucktown

B
Bucktown
Shief said:
You are correct that money/demand are the reasons that there is not a connection. I have a problem with asking a pseudo-rhetorical question from time-to-time and it sounds like I mean it.
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I think the demand is there at least for football games.
 
#634      

TampaToo

T
TampaToo
Dkayak said:
Sports Illustrated: TV Killed the PAC 12

The last four paragraphs sound especially grim:

“If anything, the Big Ten’s breaking the 16-team conference ceiling could trigger further movement toward the long-prophesied consolidation of power into two or three megaconferences. The Big Ten and SEC can become the AFC and NFC, perhaps shedding ancient members and adding more lucrative new ones. It would be NFL Lite, with less talent, having sucked nearly all the charm out of the college game.

In Network, business tycoon Arthur Jensen launches a towering sermon to drill into TV show host Beale how the world really works: ‘There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichsmarks, rins, rubles, pounds and shekels.’

In college sports, there are no regions. There are no loyalties. And now there is no West, in terms of having its own home base and cultural center. There is only one holistic system of systems, and the system is driven by choices people make when they turn on the TV on Saturday afternoons.

Big ratings rule everything. Lousy ratings are lethal. Write it on the Pac-12’s tombstone.”
Click to expand...
Poor PAC12 leadership killed the PAC12.
 
#635      

Shief

Shief
Champaign Area
Shief
Here's an article about the SEC countering the B1G's addition of Oregon and Washington. I can understand FSU, Clemson, UNC/NC State, Virginia/Virginia Tech being targets but Notre Dame is a huge stretch. If ND leaves the ACC and joins a conference, I strongly believe they will come to the B1G. If the B1G continues to expand, I would like to see some rivalry psirs coming in together like ND/Stanford, FSU/Miami, and UNC/Virginia. These teams could then play other rivals in the nonconference schedule annually, think FSU/Florida and Clemson/South Carolina.

 
#637      

IlliniKrush

I
IlliniKrush
I just don’t see how we go to 10 conference games under the current post season structure. It’s not like BB where SoS and Quality wins and bad loses are considered. In FB it’s a zero sum game in conference. Any win by one team means a loss to the other. Money is made by going to bowl games. Conference strength is judged on it. Fans require it. Players want it. Coaches are fired for not getting there.
In the SEC you can schedule 4 wins no matter how bad they are and then just need to go 2-6 in conference to get there. I mean we are already working at a disadvantage. The NCAA would have to require a 9 game conference schedule to qualify for the playoffs and bowl games right?
Not that I care but you have Iowa/ Iowa St, how could that continue
Someone smarter than me explain how going to 10 games makes sense?
From a fan perspective do you want to see 10 conference games knowing that it may mean no bowl game.
 
#638      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
IlliniKrush said:
I just don’t see how we go to 10 conference games under the current post season structure. It’s not like BB where SoS and Quality wins and bad loses are considered. In FB it’s a zero sum game in conference. Any win by one team means a loss to the other. Money is made by going to bowl games. Conference strength is judged on it. Fans require it. Players want it. Coaches are fired for not getting there.
In the SEC you can schedule 4 wins no matter how bad they are and then just need to go 2-6 in conference to get there. I mean we are already working at a disadvantage. The NCAA would have to require a 9 game conference schedule to qualify for the playoffs and bowl games right?
Not that I care but you have Iowa/ Iowa St, how could that continue
Someone smarter than me explain how going to 10 games makes sense?
From a fan perspective do you want to see 10 conference games knowing that it may mean no bowl game.
Click to expand...
I want to see 10 conference games so that I have to watch us decimate one fewer cupcake every year. If that's the difference between a bowl game or no bowl game then we have bigger problems.

Above all, I watch football for entertainment, and watching us beat Western Illinois by 50 is not entertaining.
 
#639      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
ties will be resolved
Joel Goodson
IlliniKrush said:
I just don’t see how we go to 10 conference games under the current post season structure. It’s not like BB where SoS and Quality wins and bad loses are considered. In FB it’s a zero sum game in conference. Any win by one team means a loss to the other. Money is made by going to bowl games. Conference strength is judged on it. Fans require it. Players want it. Coaches are fired for not getting there.
In the SEC you can schedule 4 wins no matter how bad they are and then just need to go 2-6 in conference to get there. I mean we are already working at a disadvantage. The NCAA would have to require a 9 game conference schedule to qualify for the playoffs and bowl games right?
Not that I care but you have Iowa/ Iowa St, how could that continue
Someone smarter than me explain how going to 10 games makes sense?
From a fan perspective do you want to see 10 conference games knowing that it may mean no bowl game.
Click to expand...

there's going to be a push for not playing FCS schools. those games shouldn't count.

and it wouldn't surprise me one bit, if the BIG throws its weight around when negotiations for the next iteration of CFPs begins. in fact, I expect that. the conference is going to have a stuff-ton of leverage. might just chuck the CFP and go with an SEC v BIG format. the writing is on the wall, the P2 is going to breakaway from the NCAA.

when the conference announces revenue sharing with its players (say ~10%), it's game over
 
#640      

IlliniKrush

I
IlliniKrush
sacraig said:
I want to see 10 conference games so that I have to watch us decimate one fewer cupcake every year. If that's the difference between a bowl game or no bowl game then we have bigger problems.

Above all, I watch football for entertainment, and watching us beat Western Illinois by 50 is not entertaining.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, for me I enjoy beating WIU by 50 more than losing to Washington by 3.
What I want is a competitive, entertaining and good football team. To have that you need good players.
My concern is perception and the impact it will have on recruiting
A recruit is evaluating 2 teams
Team A is in a 10 game conference and have gone 5-5 over the last 3 years (2-0, 3-7)
Team B is in an 8 game conference and have gone 6-6 over the last 3 years (4-0, 2-6) and 3 bowl games!
I fear it will be more difficult to attract good players unless you are at or near the top of the conference. And if you’re not then you will find yourself in a never ending cycle of fighting your way up because recruits don’t want to play for a perceived loser. And that could mean that we are back to losing to WIU by 3 instead of winning by 50,
 
#641      

Ander1345

A
Ander1345
Important territory we are approaching is if you are going to add games to the season in a NIL out of the box era, you will absolutely start having to afford revenue sports athletes(ideally all) minimum and fair compensation or the sport will be unreasonably top heavy.

It is one thing for there to not be conference parity. It is another thing to ask the players to play a near full NFL equivalent season(putting their academic future and health at great risk) and not be able to guarantee them even basic compensation.
 
#642      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
ties will be resolved
Joel Goodson
IlliniKrush said:
Fair enough, for me I enjoy beating WIU by 50 more than losing to Washington by 3.
What I want is a competitive, entertaining and good football team. To have that you need good players.
My concern is perception and the impact it will have on recruiting
A recruit is evaluating 2 teams
Team A is in a 10 game conference and have gone 5-5 over the last 3 years (2-0, 3-7)
Team B is in an 8 game conference and have gone 6-6 over the last 3 years (4-0, 2-6) and 3 bowl games!
I fear it will be more difficult to attract good players unless you are at or near the top of the conference. And if you’re not then you will find yourself in a never ending cycle of fighting your way up because recruits don’t want to play for a perceived loser. And that could mean that we are back to losing to WIU by 3 instead of winning by 50,
Click to expand...

if team A has a verified average payout of $100K per year for freshmen! (disclaimer: made up numbers) and plays on national tv a lot and team B doesn't come close, guess where the HS studs are going?
 
#643      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
IlliniKrush said:
I just don’t see how we go to 10 conference games under the current post season structure. It’s not like BB where SoS and Quality wins and bad loses are considered. In FB it’s a zero sum game in conference. Any win by one team means a loss to the other. Money is made by going to bowl games. Conference strength is judged on it. Fans require it. Players want it. Coaches are fired for not getting there.
In the SEC you can schedule 4 wins no matter how bad they are and then just need to go 2-6 in conference to get there. I mean we are already working at a disadvantage. The NCAA would have to require a 9 game conference schedule to qualify for the playoffs and bowl games right?
Not that I care but you have Iowa/ Iowa St, how could that continue
Someone smarter than me explain how going to 10 games makes sense?
From a fan perspective do you want to see 10 conference games knowing that it may mean no bowl game.
Click to expand...
Well the playoff is expanding so I think we’ll start to see SOS matter a bit more in football too.

But also, as we all know, this is all about money. From a financial standpoint, why bring these new, yet previously established, strong brands into this conference of traditionally strong brands (mostly) and not have them play each other as much as po$$ible?
 
#644      

IlliniKrush

I
IlliniKrush
Joel Goodson said:
there's going to be a push for not playing FCS schools. those games shouldn't count.

and it wouldn't surprise me one bit, if the BIG throws its weight around when negotiations for the next iteration of CFPs begins. in fact, I expect that. the conference is going to have a stuff-ton of leverage. might just chuck the CFP and go with an SEC v BIG format. the writing is on the wall, the P2 is going to breakaway from the NCAA.

when the conference announces revenue sharing with its players (say ~10%), it's game over
Click to expand...

This is something I have also been thinking about. Have a B1G - SEC bowl alliance. Whoever doesn’t make the CFP start working your way down the line between B1G and SEC regardless of getting to 6 wins. Remaining 1 plays 1,2-2,3-3 etc and go all the way to the bottom. Only a couple of B1G teams wouldn’t make, at this point. Sort of a like the BB B1G ACC challenge and bragging rights. Sell those games and tv rights, we know how much the B1G and the SEC love their $$$
Or another similar idea is to do this for the teams that don’t get a bowl game and pair up the remaining teams to play each other.
If something like this were to be worked out then I’ll bet the SEC would be more willing to go to a 9 or 10 game conference schedule.
Heck thinking about it, if this could be worked out both might be inclined to go to 12 conference games
 
#645      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
ties will be resolved
Joel Goodson
IlliniKrush said:
This is something I have also been thinking about. Have a B1G - SEC bowl alliance. Whoever doesn’t make the CFP start working your way down the line between B1G and SEC regardless of getting to 6 wins. Remaining 1 plays 1,2-2,3-3 etc and go all the way to the bottom. Only a couple of B1G teams wouldn’t make, at this point. Sort of a like the BB B1G ACC challenge and bragging rights. Sell those games and tv rights, we know how much the B1G and the SEC love their $$$
Or another similar idea is to do this for the teams that don’t get a bowl game and pair up the remaining teams to play each other.
If something like this were to be worked out then I’ll bet the SEC would be more willing to go to a 9 or 10 game conference schedule.
Heck thinking about it, if this could be worked out both might be inclined to go to 12 conference games
Click to expand...

it's the dawn of NFL-lite and that's a new paradigm. good idea
 
#646      

IlliniKrush

I
IlliniKrush
Additionally I have long complained that the current bowl system allows the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. The extra practice time which is used more for development than game planning and the real experience your future starters get in that game is a real advantage. Plus recruits can visit and see you practice after their season. The teams that actually need that extra development to improve and get better don’t get it which just puts them further and further away from those that do.
 
#647      

fuddrules

F
fuddrules
IlliniKrush said:
I just don’t see how we go to 10 conference games under the current post season structure. It’s not like BB where SoS and Quality wins and bad loses are considered. In FB it’s a zero sum game in conference. Any win by one team means a loss to the other.
Click to expand...
Same. I won't believe it until the conference announces it. I don't think they will.
 
#648      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
TheChief4Life said:
College football today is not what it was 20 years ago. Twenty years ago it wasn't what it was 20 years prior to that. So on and so on. I have a feeling if it were up to some people in this forum we'd still only be handing the ball off. My hope is that 20 years from now everyone that's already halfway off the ledge has taken a step back, takes a look back and realizes that this "latest catastrophe" didn't ruin football any more than the forward pass did 100 years ago.
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I can respect an orientation towards life of "embrace the new, embrace the future". I was a curmudgeon straight out of the womb, that's not my way, but I recognize and value that perspective.

Here's the thing though.

The college football playoff (at least in its 4-team iteration) was something fans have been clamoring for for decades. Not me of course, but lots of college football fans. Players being able to get cut in on the fruits of their labor is something lots of stakeholders in the college sports community, including many fans, have been calling for for decades.

Literally no one asked for the conference realignment carousel, not even the schools that are "winning" with their moves. There is just sadness and regret and a sense of compulsion, the game being pushed around by nameless, faceless forces.

It's not "embrace new possibilities", it's "suck it up, things HAVE to be this way". To which I say, no I won't and no they don't.

The sport is going to suffer for this, and it never had to be this way if the people involved had acted with any foresight. We as fans aren't playing our role properly if we're not angry and contemptuous at this, the way some of the posted articles have expressed quite well.
 
#649      

PNWIllini

P
PNW
PNWIllini
BretMyBeachHouse said:
Travel to Washington State has always been legendarily bad. It really reduces their attraction. They bring little to the table and take a lot.
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Travel to Pullman WA from Seattle is easy. “Go east ‘til you smell it and south ‘til you step in it.”

We are seriously going to miss the Apple Cup. Its a huge thing in Washington State, still. The fanbases of both schools love to talk crap about each other, but it’s ultimately a friendly, family back yard BBQ kind of matchup. Same goes for the formerly known as the Civil War in Oregon. Realignment is murdering these traditions.
 
#650      

IlliniCaboose

IlliniCaboose
IlliniCaboose
I get the regionalism arguments from a nostalgia standpoint, we all miss the way things were from when we were younger ("It was a better, simpler time when yada yada yada"). But, as an Illinois and Big Ten fan, going forward I like it. Am I sad I won't get to watch UCLA and Oregon State play at 10pm local time, not really. Am I excited to have USC and Oregon come to Champaign every few years, hell yes.
As they say, change is the only constant. No use worrying about what might be coming down the pike. I'm going to still go to every home game, and watch every road game on TV no matter who Illinois is lining up against that week. There will still be bowl games, and now, with the expanded play off format and a competent coaching staff, we've got an outside shot to make the playoffs every once in a while. Will we ever be at the OSU or Mich level, almost certainly no. Will we ever be at risk of being kicked out of the Big Ten and have to join the MAC and be in the second tier of college football, I don't think that will happen either. We're in as good of a position as a school with our football pedigree could hope to be in, so just sit back and enjoy our hopeful rise from the dregs of the conference to hopefully somewhere in the middle!
 
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