Cubs 2023 Season

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#126      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
the most maddening part really, was we had a pretty decent catcher and we let him go , and we really wont save any money with the next guy.
and next year we will get to watch him single handedly beat us 3 or 4 times
I don't really know what to make of the apparently widespread and statistically confirmed notion that Contreras doesn't work well with pitchers, and then him getting a big contract with the Holy Citadel of Catcher Defense.
 
#129      
I don't really know what to make of the apparently widespread and statistically confirmed notion that Contreras doesn't work well with pitchers, and then him getting a big contract with the Holy Citadel of Catcher Defense.
Contreras' value isn't really all that tied up in defense. He's not a great pitch framer, and not known as a great game caller. That's all part of the reason his trade value cratered. Having the off-season to work with a pitching staff will help, rather than having him figure out pitchers' strengths and tendencies in the midst of a pennant race. Like he did as a Cub last year, I assume he will DH as often as he catches.
When a team has an all-world defensive talent behind the dish for 18 years, it's hard to imagine them not having that continue. Molina's tenure had 3 different GMs... Mozeliak never had to even think about catchers...
I don't know if the Cardinals value defense over offense at that position, or they just so happened to luck into Mike Matheny in 2000 (Surprisingly made the team out of training camp), and subsequently had the best defensive catcher of a generation take it over for the next 18 years.

By luck or design, it's going to be a different experience for Cardinal pitchers the next few years.

I tend to think Molina was the secret sauce that has kept the floor so high for them over the last 20 years. Their pitching staff is not as talented or deep as what they typically enjoy. Losing Molina's guidance, experience, and defense won't help.
 
#130      

bdutts

Houston, Texas
Looks like Correa to the Mets...
 
#131      
Looks like Correa to the Mets...
Yeah. Went from 13 years, $350 million with the Giants to 12 years, $315 million with the Mets.

One of those two teams might end up looking really dumb depending on how the next decade turns out. I’m kind of glad it won’t be the Cubs in either case.
 
#132      

bdutts

Houston, Texas
Yeah. Went from 13 years, $350 million with the Giants to 12 years, $315 million with the Mets.

One of those two teams might end up looking really dumb depending on how the next decade turns out. I’m kind of glad it won’t be the Cubs in either case.
Will be interesting to see what the medical issue is. I will say, the Mets are going all in…
 
#134      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
with the luxury tax, Mets payroll is basically $500,000,000 once you count the parking lot attendants and popcorn vendors

didn't the Ricketts' buy the Cubs for less than that ?
 
#135      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
I just read the Cubs sold for $900,000,000 in 2009. but my point stands
 
#136      
with the luxury tax, Mets payroll is basically $500,000,000 once you count the parking lot attendants and popcorn vendors

didn't the Ricketts' buy the Cubs for less than that ?
Steve Cohen doesn't mind throwing his ill begotten hedge fund billions at his baseball team. Glad we aren't in the NL East... The Braves seem to be really well run, and Philly and NY spend like drunken sailors...
No wonder Jeter got out of the Marlins business. They don't have a chance to compete, unless they also get a multi-billionaire owner whose ego needs a WS ring.
 
#137      
I just read the Cubs sold for $900,000,000 in 2009. but my point stands
That's why it wasn't that crazy that the Phoenix Suns just sold for 4 billion. Owning a pro sports team is the ultimate status symbol, and openings in the club don't come up every year. Teams are appreciating in value like mad.

Cubs current estimated value is 2.9 billion, but I bet they'd sell for significantly more.
 
#138      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
That's why it wasn't that crazy that the Phoenix Suns just sold for 4 billion. Owning a pro sports team is the ultimate status symbol, and openings in the club don't come up every year. Teams are appreciating in value like mad.

Cubs current estimated value is 2.9 billion, but I bet they'd sell for significantly more.
yup

people would be in line to pay twice that much
 
#141      
"Difference of opinion" on medical issue between Correa and Giants per Boras.
Judging by the differences in the contracts, it was about a $35 million difference of opinion.

Whatever the issue was, it was enough to make the Giants walk away and insignificant enough for the Mets to say, “Knock a year off, and we’re good.”

My wife doesn’t know a ton about baseball, but knows a lot about contract negotiations. She suspects it had more to do with the Giants getting cold feet than anything actually wrong with Correa.
 
#142      
Judging by the differences in the contracts, it was about a $35 million difference of opinion.

Whatever the issue was, it was enough to make the Giants walk away and insignificant enough for the Mets to say, “Knock a year off, and we’re good.”

My wife doesn’t know a ton about baseball, but knows a lot about contract negotiations. She suspects it had more to do with the Giants getting cold feet than anything actually wrong with Correa.
That would be my guess. Allegedly, Giants were concerned about a couple of injuries that happened to CC while he was in the minors... Strange to get hung up on an eight-year-old injury, unless you simply had buyer's remorse.
 
#143      
That would be my guess. Allegedly, Giants were concerned about a couple of injuries that happened to CC while he was in the minors... Strange to get hung up on an eight-year-old injury, unless you simply had buyer's remorse.
Not so sure about just injuries in minors. He only played 109 games in 2017 because of a thumb injury, but I’m guessing the back was the issue. He only played 185 games over 2018 and 2019 seasons because of back problems. (Also had rib injury in 2019 I think.)
 
#144      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Not so sure about just injuries in minors. He only played 109 games in 2017 because of a thumb injury, but I’m guessing the back was the issue. He only played 185 games over 2018 and 2019 seasons because of back problems. (Also had rib injury in 2019 I think.)
But like all of that stuff is public information.

What did the physical show? What could it possibly show that would worry you about a position player? A pitcher is different.
 
#145      
But like all of that stuff is public information.

What did the physical show? What could it possibly show that would worry you about a position player? A pitcher is different.
Well scans/x-rays aren’t public. May have seen something there that raised a red flag. I have no idea. I was just commenting on poster who said the issue was minor league injuries. He’s had his fill in majors too, which are probably more the issue.
 
#146      
Well scans/x-rays aren’t public. May have seen something there that raised a red flag. I have no idea. I was just commenting on poster who said the issue was minor league injuries. He’s had his fill in majors too, which are probably more the issue.
Boras (for whatever that's worth) said it was about injuries that occurred in the minors. The Giants gave a nothing answer citing privacy rules.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/scott-boras-comments-on-carlos-correa-situation.html
 
#148      
Boras (for whatever that's worth) said it was about injuries that occurred in the minors. The Giants gave a nothing answer citing privacy rules.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/scott-boras-comments-on-carlos-correa-situation.html
That’s interesting. He did have a pretty bad broken leg in minors — might have been his first year. But knowing Boras, he could just be trying to divert attention from his back. Who knows? As someone(s) mentioned, might just be Giants getting cold feet. That seems unlikely unless questionable physical results nudged them in that direction. And if that’s the case, not sure I blame them.
 
#149      

SKane

Tennessee
It would be so bad to be a Marlins or Nationals fan.

They have no chance against Braves, Mets and Phillies (alphabetical) except to be cannon fodder.
 
#150      

Mr. Tibbs

southeast DuPage
It would be so bad to be a Marlins or Nationals fan.

They have no chance against Braves, Mets and Phillies (alphabetical) except to be cannon fodder.
MLB is going to need to do something along the lines of the NFL to balance out payroll , or the same 10 out of 12 teams will make the playoffs every year and fan interest in the 18 cities that consistently finish 3rd - last will vanish.

This current system is not sustainable for very long . Its by and large the owners fault
 
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