Omar Payne was in street clothes for Jacksonville’s big upset win @ VCU, so he must be nursing some sort of injury (media reports for small time D1 programs is hard to come by).
Former Illini in College Hoops
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Coach Underwood once (or more) called Curbelo a ‘Savant’.
And a Savant is a person with unique knowledge and exceptional skill in a given field or endeavor.
Coach may have been a little dramatic here. But he knows a different kind of player when he sees on. And so can people in the stands.
Savants do not see and experience the World the same way as mortals. They view everything through a different lens that makes sense to them but not necessarily to someone else.
The point? That’s why Andre can be brilliant one moment and maddeningly error-prone or frustrating the next. He’s just seeing and playing a different game out there.
That can be tough within a team game. The Savant has to be just a bit less Savant-like and the rest of the team has to begin to recognize how the player creates within the moment and they work to try to make the pieces fit together.
Curbelo is simple. He is the best PG in the nation and one of the worst all rolled into one. He can do things with the ball no one else can do. But he also makes some of the worst decisions of any PG I've ever seen. He complains too much. He will actually ignore defense to make a spectacle or complain about calls. He can be a ball hog, because when he gets for himself, it usually takes a fair amount of time to get there. Some of his passes are so unexpected, his teammates aren't ready for them. He's always looking for the spectacular and not as interested in just running the offense which can cause him to run into turnovers. But still, he makes some of the best assists you've ever seen, somehow scores some of the easiest yet most spectacular buckets I've ever seen, and can take over a game.
The problem is the dichotomy is not an 80/20 kinda thing, it's game to game. He can win you one game and lose you the next. He can have minimal impact on a game or be the catalyst. You never quite know what you're going to get. That is difficult as a coach but even more difficult as a teammate.
I'd rather have a guy that's a B+ every night than a guy who's an A+ followed be an A-, C, D, A+, B
The problem is the dichotomy is not an 80/20 kinda thing, it's game to game. He can win you one game and lose you the next. He can have minimal impact on a game or be the catalyst. You never quite know what you're going to get. That is difficult as a coach but even more difficult as a teammate.
I'd rather have a guy that's a B+ every night than a guy who's an A+ followed be an A-, C, D, A+, B
Watched part of his game tonight. After getting called for a reach in that he didn’t agree with he started playing defense on DePaul’s next possession with his arms behind his back- lol. Forever the showman
I honestly think he'd be a better pro than he's been a college player. I'm not saying NBA necessarily but one of the euro divisions is more his speed.
He'd kill it as AND1 mixtape guy.... Hope he meets his potential and plays in the NBA one day. He has the talent and vision but it takes more than that
Which the refs will take, consciously or subconsciously, as an FU and it will cause a negative effect later in the game.
Thank you Galloping Ghost for giving everyone on this board a little perspective! Most people want to focus on the negative. That's on you.
If you haven't suffered a concussion or know someone who has, you have no idea what Andre was going through. People seem to forget how good he was his Freshman year. I've seen most of his games this year, and with the exception of the Iowa State game he just keeps getting better.
Last night he had 15 points on 6 of 8 from the field and 5 assists.
If you haven't suffered a concussion or know someone who has, you have no idea what Andre was going through. People seem to forget how good he was his Freshman year. I've seen most of his games this year, and with the exception of the Iowa State game he just keeps getting better.
Last night he had 15 points on 6 of 8 from the field and 5 assists.
ptgrd23
- orange county CA
I watched 2nd half. Andre has reduced his dribbling mindlessly in circles in the lane trying to figure out what to do. He appears much less ball dominant. Still made some nice feeds to cutters in the lane. Still can't catch and shoot. Still leaving his man and hunting steals in the open floor.
Sometimes I feel like Coleman is trying to imitate Andre with the spectacular pass to the back door cutter. Unfortunately half the time Coleman throws it so hard the cutter can't corral it.
Pretty sure he also had 6 turnovers
I am really curious how in the age of NIL, Portal, etc. etc, how in the world do Brad and co. (and really any coaching staff for that matter) get someone like AC to consider moving on as they're hunting someone like Skyy on the recruiting trail?
Does the current player always get to make the first move in terms of announcing their intention to move on, and then the team can respond in their recruiting accordingly, or do/would Brad ever nudge a player like an AC or a Podz or whoever else to consider moving on? It's not like they can fire them. Just really curious how that stuff works in the background.
I don’t know — maybe Illini0440 will chime in with some generalities not necessarily connected with either of the two you mentioned. I’ve always assumed it was by being brutally honest with these kids. To get to the point where you’re playing ball at the D1 level, I’d think the kids are extremely competitive and likely have a decent amount of ego. You tell them that you just don’t see a role for them beyond mop up time, most that aspirations of playing ball beyond college are likely to look elsewhere.
Now Lieb is on the other end of the spectrum. It has likely been apparent to him that he’s relegated to mop up duty, but he reportedly wants that degree from Illinois. So he’s putting in his time, trying to get better and being a good teammate. It will be interesting to see if once he has his degree whether he transfers out, stays with Illinois or just calls it quits.
This is big time college basketball, coaches absolutely do "nudge" kids to move on, even if they can't outright cut them, and the have for years now. That's where the term "Creaning" comes from, after Tom Crean. Curbelo is probably a fairly mutual decision to open up the spot to bring in Skyy Clark after he de-committed from Kentucky, they probably would have liked Podz to stick around, but it's understandable he would want to go after not leaving the bench very often as a Freshman.
As for Lieb, my guess is that he will be around for next year, finish his U of I business degree, at which point after four years, his scholarship will no longer be guaranteed by university/Big Ten policy, and degree in hand he will use his COVID free eligibility year to grad transfer and pick a free masters degree and hopefully find a spot where he can play more before likely retiring from the game. Ideally, assuming Hawkins moves on and that Perrin is still a bit green, he can give you 10 minutes a night by that point in reserve duty, but that may not be in the cards.
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For his size, he is an excellent rebounder. And he is a really good defensive player; he's not only a good on the ball defender, but he has a knack for knowing when he can leave his man to make a play elsewhere. Everything else you said is right on target.
I have absolutely no evidence of this, but it really wouldn't be that difficult to get a business degree in three years when you add in Summer Classes each year. By all accounts Lieb is a very good student. Would be great for both parties if he could finish after this year and transfer to a smaller D1 program with two years of eligibility and a free masters.
From what I've seen, Lieb will never get any consistent minutes for us. He just doesn't look very good. But at his size and mobility, he could definitely be a big contributor for a small conference team.
If I were Lieb I'd use basketball for education. Go to the Ivy league. He could play and have an impressive degree on his resume.
blackdog
- Champaign
Both parties? How is that? Illinois is not running up against a numbers crunch since they consistently carry open scholarships. This team is also not exactly long on size so just having a big body in practice that knows the system, the culture, and you don't have to worry about giving playing time to is a big plus for them. There really doesn't seem to be much of a point in trying to run him out there door.
InDaAZ
- Eugene, Oregon
These conversations have been taking place since long before NIL/Portal. A friend of mine was a sophomore running back for Indiana. He played sparingly, but was pretty successfully used for short yardage situations. He went into his end of season meeting with the head coach (Cam Cameron) hoping to be told that he would be playing a bigger role in his junior year. Instead, Cam said, “You can stay with the team, but I’m telling you right now you’ll never get into another game as long as I am the coach.” Clearly, he wanted to free up that scholarship for someone else. My friend really had no choice but to transfer. And yes, Cameron was a smug so-and-so…
I'm not saying that we need to push him out for a numbers crunch, but its not like he's ever going to contribute so the coaching staff would probably prefer flexibility with the roster spot.
Perrin, Hansberry, and Morez all classify as bigs and will be on the roster in the next two classes. Plus Dainja. I'm sure we would consider adding others.
Yeah, good point, a lot of players are able to finish in three since they are around for summer courses. So he could definitely finish his degree in Spring and then play two seasons at a Mid Major.
I also agree that there probably isn't a huge rush to get him out the door. He seems like a good character guy, always cheers hard on the bench and is the first guy up to encourage guys and give high fives and stuff. He's got a walk-on mentality for sure in terms of being grateful to be there, and being 7 feet likely makes him a useful scout team player to be able to mimic guys like Edey and Dickinson in game prep (he probably helped Kofi's development by having a big guy in practice to work against, which is hard to replicate with a 6'7 player).
I'm sure we'll be active in the Portal and will need to see what kind of numbers we're looking at, but I don't mind having him on scholarship next year. Right now, we have 11 active scholarship players which includes Lieb, so there's already 2 open spots. So it's not like we're hurting by having a guy like that around.
Ivy League doesn't offer athletic scholarships. Lieb would have to borrow the tuition or receive an academic scholarship.
While on one level this can seem a bit heartless and unfair... on another level it makes perfect sense.
Sports is a true meritocracy. You gain position by perfecting your skills and your achievements. Everyone gets a chance to show what they’ve got... and you total things up and see where you stand.
Spots on a major college roundball team are a highly prized commodity. They really aren’t owned or owed to anyone. You need to earn your spot and keep it.
If a player can’t match the skills and ability of another potentially on a roster, it’s best for all parties if he moves on. His original team isn’t going to showcase whatever talent he has... and the player can grow and prosper in a fresh and more open environment.
And with NIL, the Meritocracy of Sports is highlighted and on true display. Pieces moving around and finding their right fits.
Virtually no one with great talent or that fits a critical certain niche within a team is ever going to be asked to move on. That would be counterproductive to all parties.
It is the responsibility of any sports organization to build the best ball club you can. You owe it to the institution, the fans, and to the other players.
This is Big Boy World stuff. The kind of thing that sports competition teaches you... as well as preparing you for Life beyond sports with.
He'd have TWO impressive degrees, one from Illinois and one from an Ivy!
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