Illini Basketball 2016-2017

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#301      
This sums up the team's prospects and explains why a lot of commentators are picking us to finish 10th/11th/12th. On this board, we know that Leron is a preternaturally gifted rebounder with an elite motor, but from the outside he looks like an early bust who failed to make a substantial impact as a freshman (outside of flagrant fouls and cheap shots) and has had nothing but injuries and legal trouble since.

In short, Leron isn't a safe bet. Neither is Thorne. We know that Thorne is a physical mismatch for every big man in the league, with his plus athleticism, NBA size, and nice motor. His type-1 diabetes limits his conditioning and makes it harder for him to recover from injuries. If you didn't actually watch Illinois last year in non-con (let's say your an OSU fan), you just know he's a big body who hasn't ever dominated, even at a lower level, and has never played much more than 20 mpg. He's also had two medical redshirts. If I saw 6'11, 270, limited minutes, and two medical redshirts sitting on an opposing team's roster, I wouldn't be scared. I'd assume the kid was an injury prone oaf who put up good rebounding numbers at Charlotte and in non-con last year because he's gigantic.

Because we have a close-up perspective on the Illini, we have a better sense of how solid the rotation of Black, Thorne, Finke, and Morgan could be at the 4/5. We know that Tracy's leadership is going to make a difference, there's good reason to believe Kipper Nichols is underrated, JCL could become a 1st team All-B1G guard...if you're just a fan or journalist looking at roster/record/stats, you'd have no reason to believe in this team. We know that a 12th place finish is possible, but about as likely as a 4th place finish. Ending up 5th or 6th is more than reasonable. The caveat is that every other fanbase feels the same way at this point. I'll bet even Rutgers is talking themselves into 6 conference wins and a 9th place finish.


Even knowing all those things though, adding who we added and losing who we lost, are we likely to be 10-15 ppg better than last year?



because we lost Big Ten games by:
34
31
27
26
25
12
11
10
9
8
7
5
2
2


Everyone is hyped about JCL. He is awesome dont get me wrong. But with No KNunn to guard, he is going to get every team's best perimeter defender. I expect some dropoff, unless Abrams, AJ, or one of the New Guards really offers another consistent perimeter threat.


I think the power of the Black Morgan Finke trio is the X factor. If we can run 4 viable frontcourt players with different strengths out there in waves if they can shore up the interior defense which was non-existent, rebound and get some easier baskets, there's a chance we compete in the middle or even upper middle of the pack again. If not its hard to see JCL Hill and the rest of our backcourt carrying us all the way night in and night out.
 
#302      
I think the power of the Black Morgan Finke trio is the X factor. If we can run 4 viable frontcourt players with different strengths out there in waves if they can shore up the interior defense which was non-existent, rebound and get some easier baskets, there's a chance we compete in the middle or even upper middle of the pack again. If not its hard to see JCL Hill and the rest of our backcourt carrying us all the way night in and night out.

The word in bold is the biggest difference between last year and this year.
 
#303      
The word in bold is the biggest difference between last year and this year.
Rebounding should improve at almost every position which will be nice. Also, Thorne may not be the best defender in the paint but just having a big wide body in the post is a huge upgrade than when we had Finke playing the 5. Rebounding will certainly improve but it'll be nice having a couple of guys that won't allow a post player to get easy buckets (Thorne) and as many second change opportunities (Black).
 
#304      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
Even knowing all those things though, adding who we added and losing who we lost, are we likely to be 10-15 ppg better than last year?



because we lost Big Ten games by:
34
31
27
26
25
12
11
10
9
8
7
5
2
2


Everyone is hyped about JCL. He is awesome dont get me wrong. But with No KNunn to guard, he is going to get every team's best perimeter defender. I expect some dropoff, unless Abrams, AJ, or one of the New Guards really offers another consistent perimeter threat.


I think the power of the Black Morgan Finke trio is the X factor. If we can run 4 viable frontcourt players with different strengths out there in waves if they can shore up the interior defense which was non-existent, rebound and get some easier baskets, there's a chance we compete in the middle or even upper middle of the pack again. If not its hard to see JCL Hill and the rest of our backcourt carrying us all the way night in and night out.

We may not score 10-15 more points per game, but I think our point margin will be close to 10 pts better because of a combination of more efficient offense (having a viable front court and PG who is a legit scoring threat), and much better defense/rebounding. A 10 pt difference in scoring margin probably gets us an additional 5-6 B1G wins and certainly a few non-con wins, as well.
 
#305      
Rebounding should improve at almost every position which will be nice. Also, Thorne may not be the best defender in the paint but just having a big wide body in the post is a huge upgrade than when we had Finke playing the 5. Rebounding will certainly improve but it'll be nice having a couple of guys that won't allow a post player to get easy buckets (Thorne) and as many second change opportunities (Black).

yup. combine that with morgan or finke on the floor and you have added size on defense and guys with size who have a little range, that will be tougher to guard if you have to also account for Hill AND Thorne.
 
#306      

whovous

Washington, DC
We may not score 10-15 more points per game, but I think our point margin will be close to 10 pts better because of a combination of more efficient offense (having a viable front court and PG who is a legit scoring threat), and much better defense/rebounding. A 10 pt difference in scoring margin probably gets us an additional 5-6 B1G wins and certainly a few non-con wins, as well.

If we take ten points off of last year's differential, we finish 10-6-1.
 
#307      
We may not score 10-15 more points per game, but I think our point margin will be close to 10 pts better because of a combination of more efficient offense (having a viable front court and PG who is a legit scoring threat), and much better defense/rebounding. A 10 pt difference in scoring margin probably gets us an additional 5-6 B1G wins and certainly a few non-con wins, as well.

defense better than " nearly none" should be achievable, so there is reason for optimism. Though I do feel like Nunn was a strong defender.
 
#308      

zpfled

Logan Square, Chicago
Everyone is hyped about JCL. He is awesome dont get me wrong. But with No KNunn to guard, he is going to get every team's best perimeter defender. I expect some dropoff, unless Abrams, AJ, or one of the New Guards really offers another consistent perimeter threat.


If Hill is playing the 3, I think he'll be getting the best perimeter defender.

A lot rides on whether or not we can get a decent scoring threat out of the PG position. Doesn't have to be a big scoring threat, it just has to be decent.
 
#309      
We may not score 10-15 more points per game, but I think our point margin will be close to 10 pts better because of a combination of more efficient offense (having a viable front court and PG who is a legit scoring threat), and much better defense/rebounding.
It's too early to know if we have a legit scoring threat at PG.
 
#310      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
It's too early to know if we have a legit scoring threat at PG.
Whether it's Tracy or TL it will most certainly be a step up from Tate and defenders will at least have to respect that.

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#313      

UofIChE06

Pittsburgh
Everyone is hyped about JCL. He is awesome dont get me wrong. But with No KNunn to guard, he is going to get every team's best perimeter defender. I expect some dropoff, unless Abrams, AJ, or one of the New Guards really offers another consistent perimeter threat.

Well JCL and Nunn would not have played at the same time a ton most likely. Also, this year the pg position will at least be a threat to score with Abrams and Lucas instead of Tate for large chunks of the game. Looking forward to 5v5 basketball instead of 5v4. It is truly amazing that Hill, Nunn, and JCL scored the way they did last season with a pg that wasn't a threat to score a lot of the time.
 
#314      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
If Hill is playing the 3, I think he'll be getting the best perimeter defender.

A lot rides on whether or not we can get a decent scoring threat out of the PG position. Doesn't have to be a big scoring threat, it just has to be decent.

Isn't Hill getting the best perimeter defender regardless of where he plays for us?
 
#315      

CAHALL15

Central Illinois
Via Adam Fletcher on Twitter, Finke has shown some strength gains as well with his old bench press max being 215 and today did 3 sets of 5reps at 225.
 
#317      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
Via Adam Fletcher on Twitter, Finke has shown some strength gains as well with his old bench press max being 215 and today did 3 sets of 5reps at 225.
I'd be much more interested in improvement in his squat max or vertical. Bench is a pretty useless metric for basketball.
 
#318      
Isn't Hill getting the best perimeter defender regardless of where he plays for us?
Took the words out of my mouth.

Don't get me wrong, JCL is special. But MH looks to be a legit nightmare for the rest of the B1G next season.
 
#320      

CAHALL15

Central Illinois
I'd be much more interested in improvement in his squat max or vertical. Bench is a pretty useless metric for basketball.

I think "useless" might be extreme. The NBA must not think it's completely useless as it's tested at the NBA combine and most successful bigs I've seen in the NBA have some upper body strength to them. I do agree that strength gains in the squat are important as that translates to explosiveness as well as being able to hold your ground when you're boxing out for a rebound, for example.
 
#322      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
I think "useless" might be extreme. The NBA must not think it's completely useless as it's tested at the NBA combine and most successful bigs I've seen in the NBA have some upper body strength to them. I do agree that strength gains in the squat are important as that translates to explosiveness as well as being able to hold your ground when you're boxing out for a rebound, for example.
If I remember right, Kevin Durant had trouble benching 185 in the NBA combine. He did alright. :thumb:
 
#323      
Ray Rice worked out with the team today. He looks even more jacked than before Image1466732553.680549.jpg


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#324      

CAHALL15

Central Illinois
If I remember right, Kevin Durant had trouble benching 185 in the NBA combine. He did alright. :thumb:

That's right and now he benches at least 315 (as of 2010) and is better player than when he could bench less. Again, I'm not saying bench press is the most important lift, but that "useless" was extreme and it must mean something as many NBA players perform this lift and even our now trusted strength and conditioning coach has our guys working on this. I'm just glad that Finke is getting stronger.

Here's a link to KD bench pressing 315 in 2010: http://dailythunder.com/2010/11/remember-that-one-time-kd-couldnt-bench-185-yeah-he-can-now/
 
#325      
That's right and now he benches at least 315 (as of 2010) and is better player than when he could bench less. Again, I'm not saying bench press is the most important lift, but that "useless" was extreme and it must mean something as many NBA players perform this lift and even our now trusted strength and conditioning coach has our guys working on this. I'm just glad that Finke is getting stronger.

Here's a link to KD bench pressing 315 in 2010: http://dailythunder.com/2010/11/remember-that-one-time-kd-couldnt-bench-185-yeah-he-can-now/

Spoiler alert, that video is fake. He had people on each the side picking the bar up. He will never put up that weight. He still can barely hit 185. If it all now.
 
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