Illini Basketball 2016-2017

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#601      

icengineer

I
Southern Illinois
icengineer
Joel Goodson said:
No telling if Lucas will pass up Tate. For all his warts, Tate's an experienced senior. Sure, Groce would love to play Lucas ~10 mpg. It'll only happen if he passes Tate on the totem pole.
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I think a lot of people are selling Tate short. I believe he will be second off the bench and possibly even start the season, depending on how Abrams plays in the preseason. Having four starters like JCL, MH, MF, and MT, can make it a lot easier to play a good passing PG like Tate. Having a second platoon of TA, AJ/DJW, LB, & MM isn't all that shabby of a group themselves.
 
#603      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
Definitely curious to see how the Tate/Lucas situation shapes out. This season will definitely determine Tate's legacy considering all the split opinions of his game. Assuming he doesn't have a great season out of nowhere, if he can simply bring consistency this season he'll have the bulk of the backup minutes and be remembered as a moderate plus to the program. However, if he regresses in any area of his game, especially defensively or confidence-wise in even the most marginal of ways, he'll be chalked up as a hard bust. Alot of those minutes may very well go to Lucas. On the other hand, Lucas has a legitimate shot at surpassing Tate on the depth chart. Earning that spot seems like a realistic goal and you gotta believe that's crossed his mind. Should be great inspiration for the both of them and for the overall benefit of the team.
 
#604      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
IAmChrisFarley said:
3* doesn't mean chit. Sometimes players develop at a different pace than others. Also, by end of December TJL will be our second option at point, not Tate.

You still think Abrams can provide 30 or so minutes a game? Now that's unlikely. He'll play 25-27 minutes, TJL 10, Tate 3. Think that's the likely hood of the minutes


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I'd love to see Tracy at 20-25 early and even against good noncon foes, 25-30 in B1G play, and all he can handle for the postseason, if only because he's earned it. Yes I think we get to the tourney barring injuries in the wrong places.
 
#605      

jrichisamazing

J
jrichisamazing
IlliniDent said:
I agree, but at the same time our offense is stagnant with him on the field at times. If Tate can score about 5-6pts/game then that is a different factor. Unless Tate can reliably get to the basket for 2-3 layups a game and hit his free throws then it will be hard to see him playing significant minutes if TJL is playing well. Obviously if TJL isn't ready then it isn't even remotely a question that Tate will be our back up.
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Defense and taking care of the ball will determine who plays more between Tate and Lucas. The extra offense Lucas can provide won't mean anything if he's giving up easy points.
 
#606      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
respect my decision™
Joel Goodson
jrichisamazing said:
Defense and taking care of the ball will determine who plays more between Tate and Lucas. The extra offense Lucas can provide won't mean anything if he's giving up easy points.
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Need to add running the offense to the list. Despite Tate's glaring shooting weakness, he runs the O pretty well and, at times, very well. No way one can write him off, IMO.
 
#607      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
IlliniDent said:
Yea no way Abrams plays 30+, im guessing 25 will be his max. We can't afford to lose him to injury and he will probably only play 20ish the first several games until he gets stronger in terms of game fitness. Lots of mintues for TJL to get some game time at the start and see what he can do.
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Keep in mind TJL is also coming off a significant injury, so we don't know how much he'll be able to go at the start either.

icengineer said:
I think a lot of people are selling Tate short.
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No, we've seen enough from him to know what we're getting and it's simply too limiting to the offense to play 4 vs 5. He'll probably have to get some playing time early on, but doubtful that he's going to suddenly become a valuable contributor.
 
#608      

Big Al

B
Big Al
Is it too late for Tate to go to a prep school? [emoji6]
 
#609      

IlliniDent

IlliniDent
Chicago, IL
IlliniDent
jrichisamazing said:
Defense and taking care of the ball will determine who plays more between Tate and Lucas. The extra offense Lucas can provide won't mean anything if he's giving up easy points.
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O obviously, but for me that is a given. That comes first and even though I didn't do a good job at qualifying it it was counted in my "if Lucas doesn't play well then he has no shot" part. If Lucas can be solid enough at defense then it will be interesting to see how the offense runs through them.

Tate may take care of the ball but if we are playing 4 on 5 the whole time he is in then it won't do us much good.
 
#611      

IlliniTarHeel

IlliniTarHeel
Topsail, NC
IlliniTarHeel
I was able to meet Tate's grandparents on a shuttle ride at STL airport last year before the bragging rights game. They talked about how his finger was still swollen at that time and if the team didn't need him because of injury that he would still be sitting out. After speaking with them I believe that the finger was an issue for him all season especially looking at how he was able to make free throws before then as well.
And for all the Tate haters out there his Grandmother does read the message boards on occasion so keep that in mind when you are writing about any 18-22 year old on the Illini.
 
#612      

Tevo

Tevo
Wilmette, IL
Tevo
IlliniTarHeel said:
I was able to meet Tate's grandparents on a shuttle ride at STL airport last year before the bragging rights game. They talked about how his finger was still swollen at that time and if the team didn't need him because of injury that he would still be sitting out. After speaking with them I believe that the finger was an issue for him all season especially looking at how he was able to make free throws before then as well.
And for all the Tate haters out there his Grandmother does read the message boards on occasion so keep that in mind when you are writing about any 18-22 year old on the Illini.
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Grandmothers need thick skins, too.
 
#615      

Adnarel

A
Adnarel
That was one of the more squicky Illini injuries in recent memory. I'll never forget the sound of him in pain coming through over the radio.
 
#616      

combes

C
combes
I was sitting at that end of the court. It wasn't pretty.

It had to affect him. He struggled at the line after leading the BT in free throw shooting the year before.
 
#617      

ECETownie

E
ECETownie
Also worth noting that Groce has a past of not increasing the playing time of freshman as soon as most of us on here would like(Hill, Nunn, JCL, etc), and tends to put more faith in experience over potential(Austin over DJW and AJ). So I wouldn't expect TJL to contribute significant minutes until December, if at all. I guess health of TA and JT could change that, though.
 
#619      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
ECETownie said:
Also worth noting that Groce has a past of not increasing the playing time of freshman as soon as most of us on here would like(Hill, Nunn, JCL, etc), and tends to put more faith in experience over potential(Austin over DJW and AJ). So I wouldn't expect TJL to contribute significant minutes until December, if at all. I guess health of TA and JT could change that, though.
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You're not wrong, but the main issue is defense. Especially w/ the Austin> djw and AJ situation, those two struggled defensively. If either of them could defend as well as Austin they'd have those minutes. Defense transcends the seniority card. Groce needs to win. Word is Lucas can really defend and may adjust fairly well in that regard. I'm sorry but I'm not putting it past Tate to possibly regress defensively. I sure hope not but I feel his D took a step back last year. I said it already but if Tate shows any hint of regression in his game whatsoever, pine.
 
#620      

jrichisamazing

J
jrichisamazing
Illiniguy13 said:
You're not wrong, but the main issue is defense. Especially w/ the Austin> djw and AJ situation, those two struggled defensively. If either of them could defend as well as Austin they'd have those minutes. Defense transcends the seniority card. Groce needs to win. Word is Lucas can really defend and may adjust fairly well in that regard. I'm sorry but I'm not putting it past Tate to possibly regress defensively. I sure hope not but I feel his D took a step back last year. I said it already but if Tate shows any hint of regression in his game whatsoever, pine.
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Don't count on it. Defense is really tough to project from high school to college. Nunn was known as a great defender in high school, and he was terrible for most of his freshman season. The 2 most important things for defense are strength and scheme. Most freshmen are babies when it comes to strength and clueless about the scheme.
 
#622      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
jrichisamazing said:
Don't count on it. Defense is really tough to project from high school to college. Nunn was known as a great defender in high school, and he was terrible for most of his freshman season. The 2 most important things for defense are strength and scheme. Most freshmen are babies when it comes to strength and clueless about the scheme.
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Fair. To clarify- adjusting fairly well as in not being a completely huge liability and proving himself to be a better perimeter defender that Tate. I think that's realistic
 
#625      

Captain Bubbles

Captain Bubbles
Fairfield, IL
Captain Bubbles
Dan said:
John Groce on the Jon Rothstein podcast, starts 5:20-

https://soundcloud.com/compass-medi...rothstein-illinois-john-grocebig-10-breakdown
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I was disappointed in Rothstein's preseason first team selection. I think Hill deserved to be on that list. Leaving Hill off that list, is like taking away Captain America from the Avengers. I think Hill is a first-team selection. Also struck me odd that Jok wasn't mentioned either.

Good to see Lucas and Finke mentioned by him at the end, though he mispronounced Finke's last name. Guys call him Fink anyway.
 
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