Illini Basketball 2016-2017

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Sep 20, 2016

Obelix said:
More talent is always desirable, even at traditional positions. But the "flexibility" to transition players to multiple positions, requires a higher talent level than we currently have. Quite a bit higher IMO. Even in 2017 as I said, I am more excited that we finally addressed some positional gaps, than we have really improved talent level to have the flexibility to have players play multiple positions.

OK, guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Bleed O and B · Sep 20, 2016

Obelix said:
9 players each averaging 20 mins will not happen. Just he frontcourt that you have (PF/C), in order for that to happen, they all need to play exactly 20 mins, since there are only 80 mins available per game. Unless they play at other positions as well, but none of those players is a good candidate.

I am talking about the Max main rotation, excluding cupcakes or runaway wins/losses where players get mins when it does not matter anymore. Main rotation means 10+ mins. I think it will be 9 max, although it can definitely be less in those games.

On the individual players, 35 mins for Abrams after 2 years of inactivity and 2 major surgeries is too much to expect IMO.

I like your definition of 10+min in B1G play as "main rotation".
I think we agree the 4 bigs will each see 10+ mins, and consuming neraly all of the 80mins of playing time at the 4/5.
Last year Hill played 35 mins a game...I have no doubt that will happen again
Last year JCL played 28 mins a game..pretty sure it will be closer to 35 this year. We absolutely need the second scoring threat on the floor for max time.
That is 6 players in the rotation taking nearly 150 of the 160 mins

IMO TA is a bulldog/fighter, he did not stick around with the intent of sharing a roll with a 3 star freshman recruit. I continue to think he will log over 30 mins in B1g Play too...making the rotation 7. I could be wrong and he only plays 20 leaving room for an 8th in rotation, but I don't see a ninth....

Where do you see it?

mhuml32 · Sep 20, 2016

Bleed O and B said:
Last year Hill played 35 mins a game...I have no doubt that will happen again
Last year JCL played 28 mins a game..pretty sure it will be closer to 35 this year.

It may not seem like it, but there is a large leap between 28 and 35 minutes. Hill played 30 min/game his second year, which might be a good target for JCL. I would guess just shy of 32 min/game.

mhuml32 · Sep 20, 2016

Hill will need to shoot close to 40% from 3 to push himself up to the next level. His regression to 31% from three last year was a definite weakness.

Obelix · Sep 20, 2016

Bleed O and B said:
I could be wrong and he only plays 20 leaving room for an 8th in rotation, but I don't see a ninth....

Where do you see it?

I think I bolded it already...

Max 9 = in the critical games, you will see a main rotation of max 9. As I wrote in previous post, it is possible that the main rotation ends up being less than 9 players.

The scenario with less than 9 also exists where only 1 PG emerges and Hill plays some PG minutes as well.

Obelix · Sep 20, 2016

Bleed O and B said:
I could be wrong and he only plays 20 leaving room for an 8th in rotation, but I don't see a ninth....

Where do you see it?

As far the 9 possibility, there is the scenario in my original post.

Thorne/Mav/Black/Finke sharing the 80 mins in critical games, all 10+ mins

JCL/Hill/+1 player (let's say Kipper) (with Kipper playing 10+ and Hill/JLC sharing a less 70 mins but still getting 30+ each)

2 players at PG (let's say Abrams and TJL with 10+ mins sharing 40 mins)

Greensboro · Sep 20, 2016

Obelix said:
But the experiment of Hill at 4 did not produce great results.

I understand, but I think the bigger problem has been the positional weakness at 1 & 5 which you have also Highlighted, & which can't be decoupled from the Hill at 4 experiment.

IllinistuckinGopherland · Sep 20, 2016

Obelix said:
As far the 9 possibility, there is the scenario in my original post.

Thorne/Mav/Black/Finke sharing the 80 mins in critical games, all 10+ mins

JCL/Hill/+1 player (let's say Kipper) (with Kipper playing 10+ and Hill/JLC sharing a less 70 mins but still getting 30+ each)

2 players at PG (let's say Abrams and TJL with 10+ mins sharing 40 mins)

Makes sense, but I think DJW sees the floor every game, even if it's just a few minutes. Then again, with Kipper coming mid-December, it's certainly possible someone either plays or injures their way out of the rotation to put it back to 9.

Captain Bubbles · Sep 20, 2016

It's not talent. It's ability.

TCTORNADO · Sep 20, 2016

Last season with all the injuries and or suspensions, we had an unusual 11 guys at +10MPG and a 12th (AA) @ 9.8MPG. In the 5 or 6 seasons prior to last year 8/9 players w +10MPG was the norm.

Obelix · Sep 20, 2016

Greensboro said:
I understand, but I think the bigger problem has been the positional weakness at 1 & 5 which you have also Highlighted, & which can't be decoupled from the Hill at 4 experiment.

No doubt, I agree. As I mentioned earlier, it is not just the individual talent/effort but also the surrounding talent. Powell got the benefit of arguably the most talented group of guards playing alongside him. If Powell was on today's team, he may not have been successful, or maybe not as successful. So the overall talent of the team and other positional gaps have had an impact. But as I said, the "flexibility" to transition players to multiple positions, requires a higher talent level than we currently have, overall team talent. JMO.

FiveStar · Sep 20, 2016

Obelix said:
No doubt, I agree. As I mentioned earlier, it is not just the individual talent/effort but also the surrounding talent. Powell got the benefit of arguably the most talented group of guards playing alongside him. If Powell was on today's team, he may not have been successful, or maybe not as successful. So the overall talent of the team and other positional gaps have had an impact. But as I said, the "flexibility" to transition players to multiple positions, requires a higher talent level than we currently have, overall team talent. JMO.

I am not picking a bone with you cause I understand what you're saying, but I think Powell would be a great fit with this group. A fairly athletic, high motor guy who can shoot it, play d, and rebound, he's like the best traits of Finke and LB combined.

Obelix · Sep 20, 2016

FiveStar said:
I am not picking a bone with you cause I understand what you're saying, but I think Powell would be a great fit with this group. A fairly athletic, high motor guy who can shoot it, play d, and rebound, he's like the best traits of Finke and LB combined.

I am not saying he would not be a great fit, of course we would welcome someone like Powell. But there is no guarantee that he would have been as successful on this team as in 2005. Playing along extremely talented guards certainly helped in his transition. Roger certainly did not have the pressure to carry the team as much as Hill has/had to do.

illini8507 · Sep 21, 2016

Obelix said:
I am not saying he would not be a great fit, of course we would welcome someone like Powell. But there is no guarantee that he would have been as successful on this team as in 2005. Playing along extremely talented guards certainly helped in his transition. Roger certainly did not have the pressure to carry the team as much as Hill has/had to do.

Could be the opposite too. With less options on offense he'd get to put up more shots. Also would have more offensive rebounding and putback opportunities with the shooters on the past couple year's teams not being as good as the guards of Roger's era. Although, groce may have had him running back on D as soon as shots went up, so who knows. There's really no definitive answer.

rtbritt · Sep 21, 2016

Obelix said:
I am not saying he would not be a great fit, of course we would welcome someone like Powell. But there is no guarantee that he would have been as successful on this team as in 2005. Playing along extremely talented guards certainly helped in his transition. Roger certainly did not have the pressure to carry the team as much as Hill has/had to do.

illini8507 said:
Could be the opposite too. With less options on offense he'd get to put up more shots. Also would have more offensive rebounding and putback opportunities with the shooters on the past couple year's teams not being as good as the guards of Roger's era. Although, groce may have had him running back on D as soon as shots went up, so who knows. There's really no definitive answer.

Both legit points. :thumb: :shield:

Combo · Sep 21, 2016

rtbritt said:
Both legit points. :thumb:

I'm guessing he would average more ppg, but with a much lower shooting %.

Obelix · Sep 21, 2016

Combo said:
I'm guessing he would average more ppg, but with a much lower shooting %.

The question about stats is one that we will never find out, but it diverts from the original discussion. The point about Powell was in the context of making a successful transition to a new position. In that respect, the surrounding talent, not just the individual one, helps in that transition.

Adnarel · Sep 21, 2016

I never thought I'd see such a passionate discussion about Roger Powell in the 2016-2017 thread.

Dan · Sep 21, 2016

Schedule has been updated with times & TVs. No ESPN for Illinois in '16-'17

Link (pdf) http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.c.../8/25/2016_17_ILLINI_MBB_Schedule_8_25_16.pdf

PEORIAFLA · Sep 21, 2016

When was the last year the Illini did not play a conference game on ESPN? I know we have some on the sister stations but, WOW! Guess their tired of showing 20 points blowouts. Any word on the CBS conference schedule? They love showing us going to Wisconsin all the time.

Obelix · Sep 21, 2016

Dan said:
Schedule has been updated with times & TVs. No ESPN for Illinois in '16-'17

Link (pdf) http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.c.../8/25/2016_17_ILLINI_MBB_Schedule_8_25_16.pdf

Border war at ESPNU

Obelix · Sep 21, 2016

PEORIAFLA said:
Any word on the CBS conference schedule? They love showing us going to Wisconsin all the time.

The vast majority of Saturday-Sunday games are against lower B1G competition, so the likelihood of CBS games was low to begin with.

mdonsbach · Sep 21, 2016

BTN money hungry yet again. Have to do two months of BTN Plus to get all the games. Amazeballs.

ItsFootballTime · Sep 21, 2016

Where do we stand in the big ten in comparing front courts??? Have to think that Thorne and Morgan and Black and Finke is near the top ( even if we don't have Luther Powell Jr. on the roster this year )..

If you count Malcolm in the front court we have to be number one or close to it. Right?

Obelix · Sep 21, 2016

ItsFootballTime said:
Where do we stand in the big ten in comparing front courts??? Have to think that Thorne and Morgan and Black and Finke is near the top ( even if we don't have Luther Powell Jr. on the roster this year )..

If you count Malcolm in the front court we have to be number one or close to it. Right?

Haas/Swanigan/Edwards of Purdue will have to be #1 going into the season.

Illini Basketball 2016-2017

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