I hope Groce makes it work here, but if he doesn't, I think Cuonzo Martin will be able to retain our 2017 recruits.
Illini Basketball 2016-2017
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I hope Groce makes it work here, but if he doesn't, I think Cuonzo Martin will be able to retain our 2017 recruits.
Your personal opinion is certainly welcome, but that doesn't mean it's not fair game and open to criticism. That being said, your criticism of my post is also fair, and I completely understand why some fans have become jaded with the on-court performances.
I will say this though, you've mentioned before that you expect this team to make it to the dance. If you honestly believe that, then I don't see how you can believe that 11-7 is a stretch when it's just two wins away from a record that would likely put them on the bubble.
illinitrav
- NW Suburbs
This is me as well. I make it to about 8 games a year.
I agree with the poster above asking "why are we even talking about this", but since we are here are my thoughts:
1) Barring another injury plagued season, anything but the NCAA would be considered a bust of some sorts.
2) If we do end up going to the NIT or not at all to any post-season, I think JW has to start entertaining the idea of finding a replacement. Not saying he would pull the trigger, but if there was some established coach with a great track record (larry brown anyone?), that could stave off the attrition of the key recruits
3) It would look bad on UI if we didn't let them out of their NLI as one poster suggested we had a "Lock" on them because of it. We may, but that's poor form and not consistent with how other programs have done things.
That said, I believe this is going to be a great year. We literally have 23/24 year olds on this team going up against 18/19 year olds. That's a huge advantage in wisdom, knowledge, experience, strength, etc. This team could be prime for a very good season (not going to even project what we can do in the post-season....not going to do it)! I like our chances and I like JG! Go Illini!
I totally agree. However, successful basketball programs are usually built in the amount of time that JG has had already. His performance thus far is somewhat his fault...alot of outside circumstances as well (recruiting underbelly/injuries/etc), so it is mixed. But I'm with you...i have faith he can do it and excited to see what's to come this year!
All of this is somewhat undermined by the lack of continuity. There are really only three players on the team that have played together for the majority of the past two seasons: Hill, Morgan, and Tate. A combination of experienced players doesn't necessarily result in an experienced team.
Fair enough. I do expect the upper tier of the conference to be quite strong, so I think this will be a year where 9-9 is likely good enough, and I think I could come up with some 8-10 scenarios. But you're right, it's hard to defend saying 2-3 extra wins should be all that difficult. I think where I'm coming from is that looking at what I would expect to be losses, (again, based on my perception of our weaknesses), I can get to 7 losses quite easily, whereas looking for 11 wins comes harder. Another part of my thinking is how we've fared historically under Groce. Even his team that made the dance was 8-10 in conference, his best ever is 9-9, and his overall avg is 7-11. Finally, if I go off improvement, that would be asking for 6 more conference wins. I expect us to be better, but jeeze that's asking for an awful lot.
Sure, but we're getting 3 starters back that we didn't have. That's an awful lot. And we've got a bunch of freshmen who are now sophs. History shows that is when they have the most improvement. So that's an awful lot, too.
Very tough year to predict the performance. On paper, we should have ample talent to have a good season, but there are still many questions and recent history hasn't provided good answers.
Seriously, if half of our roster hadn't been injured (and also DP, but I think it's fair to put that one on Groce) last year are we even having these discussions?
If Thorne and black are manning the post grabbing boards, finke and Malcolm aren't playing out of position the entire season, Khalid Lewis isn't even on the roster because Abrams doesn't get hurt, tate plays backup minutes only, Kendrick doesn't miss the first however many games with his hand, JCL gets an actual off season and is up to speed for the start of the season, and Alex Austin isnt even being considered for playing time... where do you think that team finishes? Not to mention finke missed a few games with his hip (I think?) Lewis with mumps, Kendrick missed the MSU game for his kids birth, tate with his finger, which I don't think ever fully got back to 100%. I'm probably forgetting something.
I realize this is the thread for this season, but if we want to talk about what Groce has to do to save his job a month before the first exhibition, I think it's fair to bring up all the misfortune that was out of his control last season that ultimately led to a 3rd missed tourney in the first place. If we make the NCAA in 15-16 we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
If Thorne and black are manning the post grabbing boards, finke and Malcolm aren't playing out of position the entire season, Khalid Lewis isn't even on the roster because Abrams doesn't get hurt, tate plays backup minutes only, Kendrick doesn't miss the first however many games with his hand, JCL gets an actual off season and is up to speed for the start of the season, and Alex Austin isnt even being considered for playing time... where do you think that team finishes? Not to mention finke missed a few games with his hip (I think?) Lewis with mumps, Kendrick missed the MSU game for his kids birth, tate with his finger, which I don't think ever fully got back to 100%. I'm probably forgetting something.
I realize this is the thread for this season, but if we want to talk about what Groce has to do to save his job a month before the first exhibition, I think it's fair to bring up all the misfortune that was out of his control last season that ultimately led to a 3rd missed tourney in the first place. If we make the NCAA in 15-16 we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
In an alternate universe, last season would have been a really good one IMO. If Abrams, Thorne, Black, Nunn, and JCL had been healthy from summer through the end of the year it would have been a whole different ballgame.
Also, people were so (understandably) disappointed by D. Paul's idiotic actions, we seem to forget now that he was being discussed as a potential starter last summer. If he'd kept his nose clean and played to his potential, that's another big, skilled, mobile body down low. A frontcourt rotation of Thorne, Black, Paul, Finke, and Morgan (if all were healthy and good citizens) would have been extremely potent.
If we'd have had a season of unusual good luck instead of the reverse, I think we'd have been a top-5 B1G team and a S16 threat. And then, as you're alluding to, no way we'd be having these conversations.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Yep. The amount of bad luck and freak accidents last year was almost comical. We had as much misfortune over the course of one season as most teams would over three. Even if we'd had the typical level of incidents last season I can almost guarantee we'd have won at least 5-6 more games, probably more, and we're at least on the cusp of making the tournament.
What is up with all the John Groce post in keeping his job ?
Seems like a flury of them FOR no reason at once.
We can all pontificate what is fair on our future but to be gloom and doom calling for his head is absurd.
In Football we give Lovie 3-4 years grace to move the needle. This is going to be an exciting year in Basketball. This team is going to exceed expectations.
Nobody outworks this Coach not his staff not his players and I for one Love his Laser Beam focus on his team.
Seems like a flury of them FOR no reason at once.
We can all pontificate what is fair on our future but to be gloom and doom calling for his head is absurd.
In Football we give Lovie 3-4 years grace to move the needle. This is going to be an exciting year in Basketball. This team is going to exceed expectations.
Nobody outworks this Coach not his staff not his players and I for one Love his Laser Beam focus on his team.
Agree with that, and I'm not as optimistic as most about the upcoming season. The AD has his back and there's no reason to go down that road unless the season unfolds with another disappointment. Honestly, I get the optimism after all the injury time. We'll for sure be better, it's just a question of how much, and if we're able to get above .500 in the BIG. IMO he took care of business in the offseason about as well as you could ask, although there are always people who think we could have done better.
That said, we need progress, and not just a couple win improvement. The bar, universally, is getting to the tournament. And for my money, showing some upside by having a night or two where we play so well that we finish off and surprise one of top conference teams.
Groce's first team was fun to watch. They certainly struggled at times, but as the season went on, they took pride in their game, had an identity, took pride in that, and finished the season strong. We need to see that again IMO. Would do wonders for my confidence in his coaching.
Good point! Theres a reason it is a scandal when a kid already shaving is playing in the little league world series. And maybe We can push around the MSU front court for a change
WiscIllini
- Madison, WI
That's kind of a weird analogy, but I think I understand what you're saying. :huh:
Dan
Admin
Illinois freshman PG Te'Jon Lucas (foot) will be fully cleared for the start of practice on October 3rd, John Groce told @CBSSports.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/780018262729949185
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/780018262729949185
SalukiIllini
- Evansville, IN
Good news.
Captain Bubbles
- Fairfield, IL
Has anyone heard if and when they will have the Illini All-In scrimmage? With college basketball season starting less than ten days away, figured it would be coming up soon.
Illinifanatic4ever
- Orange & Blue Blood in my Veins
I thought that they only did that the past couple of years because of the renovations and couldn't have an orange and blue scrimmage.
Ten days? First practice isn't until Oct 15. The first exhibition game is Oct 30, so the only time for a scrimmage would be the weekend of Oct 22/23.
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