Illini Basketball 2017-2018

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#326      

BMo79

B
BMo79
I didn't see this posted any place sorry if it was already


http://www.news-gazette.com/multimedia/podcast/tatelines-unedited.html


pretty nice talk and found a few things interesting to hear


Kind of sounds like coach BU doesn't under stand why AJ didn't play more, and that Black wont just be the kind of player we have seen him be used as. Kind of makes you wonder just how good we should of been last year had we had BU as the coach. I have no clue how many games we are going to win, but after listing to this, it sure sounds like we are going to see guys play in ways we would of never got to see with Groce. It should be a very fun year no matter what and really makes the future look bright
 
#332      

ChiefIllini

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ChiefIllini
BMo79 said:
Kind of makes you wonder just how good we should of been last year had we had BU as the coach.
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We definitely have had the pieces to be a perennial top 25 team. PG/C issues aside, talent was there. The Groce years should be named the Underachieving Illini.

BU will produce a better product. Wins will come.
 
#333      

blmillini

B
Bloomington, IL
blmillini
ChiefIllini said:
We definitely have had the pieces to be a perennial top 25 team. PG/C issues aside, talent was there. The Groce years should be named the Underachieving Illini.

BU will produce a better product. Wins will come.
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I'm not sure I agree with this. We definitely had enough talent to be on the other side of the bubble with some better coaching but not sure perennial top 25. We simply lacked the athleticism necessary to be at that level consistently. BU seems to recognize that and is making the adjustments in personnel.
 
#334      

lstewart53x3

lstewart53x3
Scottsdale, Arizona
lstewart53x3
blmillini said:
I'm not sure I agree with this. We definitely had enough talent to be on the other side of the bubble with some better coaching but not sure perennial top 25. We simply lacked the athleticism necessary to be at that level consistently. BU seems to recognize that and is making the adjustments in personnel.
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If I were to assign values to what it takes to have a successful college basketball program, I'd say:

#1: 40% recruiting - and I don't just mean the highest ranked kids. I mean fit, position balance (depending on scheme), recruiting winners, etc, to go along with stars.

#2: 30% development of a player's potential.

#3: 20% scheme.

#4: 10% luck - and I realize this is a controversial one, but sometimes one missed basket or one key injury can have a major impact on a season.
 
#337      

TriCityBurbs

T
TriCityBurbs
Adnarel said:
Or a blown call. JG may very well have had another S16 on his resume.
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Groce was arguably the most unlucky coach in college bball last 5 years. Seemed like every year we were due for an injury, an arrest, a suspension, big calls not going our way (Miami out of bounds, an an underrated one- GT travel to beat us in the ACC/B1G challenge ugh), or some midmajor guard dropping 40 on us. Some of those were out of our control, some on Groce but still dissapointing
 
#338      

Deleted member 8213

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Guest
Deleted member 8213
TriCityBurbs said:
Groce was arguably the most unlucky coach in college bball last 5 years. Seemed like every year we were due for an injury, an arrest, a suspension, big calls not going our way (Miami out of bounds, an an underrated one- GT travel to beat us in the ACC/B1G challenge ugh), or some midmajor guard dropping 40 on us. Some of those were out of our control, some on Groce but still dissapointing
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I like John Groce and I hope he does well where he is but a lot of those things you mentioned I would not classify as "luck".
.
 
#340      

illinitiger

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illinitiger
lstewart53x3 said:
If I were to assign values to what it takes to have a successful college basketball program, I'd say:

#1: 40% recruiting - and I don't just mean the highest ranked kids. I mean fit, position balance (depending on scheme), recruiting winners, etc, to go along with stars.

#2: 30% development of a player's potential.

#3: 20% scheme.

#4: 10% luck - and I realize this is a controversial one, but sometimes one missed basket or one key injury can have a major impact on a season.
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Id say it depends on definition of successful program. I personally believe mediocre ranked recruiting balanced with scheme, great coaching and player development can deliver consistent ncaa appearances....which is one definition of a successful program.
 
#342      

Deleted member 8213

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Deleted member 8213
TriCityBurbs said:
Injuries and missed calls aren't bad luck?
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yes... but there was a lot of stuff you mentioned like midmajor guards dropping 40 on us... that isn't bad luck... disciplinary issues may be luck in a vacuum but when they happen incessantly there may be a cultural issue that starts at the top of the program that involves more than just luck.
 
#343      

Adnarel

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Adnarel
jcgoldie said:
yes... but there was a lot of stuff you mentioned like midmajor guards dropping 40 on us... that isn't bad luck... disciplinary issues may be luck in a vacuum but when they happen incessantly there may be a cultural issue that starts at the top of the program that involves more than just luck.
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Gonna have to agree there. The two egregious calls mentioned are most certainly luck. So are injuries, for the most part. Certainly one has to feel that Groce's penultimate season would have been WAY different with a healthy Abrams, a healthy and lithe Thorne, etc. That stuff is luck.

But yeah, I think arrests falls outside the realm of luck and more into culture, and we're starting to get some whispers of agreements from carefully-worded statements from parents of players and more notably former players (Nunn).

EDIT: and you're also absolutely correct... players like Keon Johnson should never go off for 40 against an Illinois team, especially if they are literally crippled with pain.
 
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#344      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
Adnarel said:
EDIT: and you're also absolutely correct... players like Keon Johnson should never go off for 40 against an Illinois team, especially if they are literally crippled with pain.
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What Keon Johnson did was so close to being physically impossible as to qualify as bad Illinois luck. Badmouth our end of game defense all you want - I won't disagree with you on any of it - but Keon Johnson put on one of the most amazing displays of grit I've ever seen on or off the court. And when he wasn't channeling John Wayne for grit, he was channeling every last one of the Ringling Brothers for the circus shots he put in.
 
#345      

TriCityBurbs

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TriCityBurbs
whovous said:
What Keon Johnson did was so close to being physically impossible as to qualify as bad Illinois luck. Badmouth our end of game defense all you want - I won't disagree with you on any of it - but Keon Johnson put on one of the most amazing displays of grit I've ever seen on or off the court. And when he wasn't channeling John Wayne for grit, he was channeling every last one of the Ringling Brothers for the circus shots he put in.
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Yeah the kid was hitting circus shots left and right the entire second half and overtime, cramped up in his legs and still hit tough ones. Having Jaylon guard him didn't help our cause, but you can't fault the defense for him banking 30 footers and shots where he wasn't even looking at the rim
 
#346      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
TriCityBurbs said:
Yeah the kid was hitting circus shots left and right the entire second half and overtime, cramped up in his legs and still hit tough ones. Having Jaylon guard him didn't help our cause, but you can't fault the defense for him banking 30 footers and shots where he wasn't even looking at the rim
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It is tough to look at the rim when your eyes are clenched shut in pain!
 
#347      

Combo

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Combo
ChiefIllini said:
We definitely have had the pieces to be a perennial top 25 team. PG/C issues aside, talent was there. The Groce years should be named the Underachieving Illini.

BU will produce a better product. Wins will come.
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Come on now. The talent was absolutely subpar during Groce's tenure.

"PG issues aside" is like saying "other than my engine not working, my car is in great shape." You can't be a good team w/o competent PG play, and we rarely had that during Groce's time.

That said, he wasn't a good Xs and Os coach.
 
#348      

ChiefIllini

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ChiefIllini
Combo said:
Come on now. The talent was absolutely subpar during Groce's tenure.

"PG issues aside" is like saying "other than my engine not working, my car is in great shape." You can't be a good team w/o competent PG play, and we rarely had that during Groce's time.

That said, he wasn't a good Xs and Os coach.
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Alright I guess I over stated it. But I''d like to think a year or two of Groce's tenure would've seen a tourney berth if BU was HC.

I can't see why we could not have made it every year except 2015-2016, and I blame that on injuries. Agreed the PG play diminishes what a team can do, but we had some special talent the other years. A couple top 15 recruiting classes and a stud transfer like Rice would have a lot of coaches salivating at the chance to coach.
 
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