Illini Basketball 2022-2023

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#576      

Bigtex

Bigtex
DFW
Bigtex
grue2 said:
I think the key to this scenario is to find a guard who can cover both the transfer1 and transfer 2 slots. Does Adam Miller have the handles for this if he gets a waiver? A 2nd tier transfer may be worse than suffering through early growth pains with our freshmen guards.
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No opinion if miller can be effective at 1&2! What I saw as a freshman - didn’t look capable at the point. Would Ramey be effective at 1&2?

Agree a good point won’t be happy with part time minutes and likely hampers growth in long term. Don’t think 2nd tier point helps team.
 
#577      

21ChampaignSt

21ChampaignSt
21ChampaignSt
grue2 said:
I think the key to this scenario is to find a guard who can cover both the transfer1 and transfer 2 slots. Does Adam Miller have the handles for this if he gets a waiver? A 2nd tier transfer may be worse than suffering through early growth pains with our freshmen guards.
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I agree. I'm all for a little trial by fire for our freshman guards, mostly because I think they can handle it.

I also don't think we're going to have 9 guys average double digit minutes. But it's impossible to tell who is going to rise to the top at this point.
 
#578      

Homecoming 2019

Homecoming 2019
Chicago
Homecoming 2019
grue2 said:
Please remember the fan board premise: "Assuming no more transfers" as we discuss this. Everything changes if we get another senior guard. I'm an armchair fan, so if you disagree with something, please provide some education with the contradiction.

How would you order Goode / Rogers / Epps / Harris for each of these (1-5, 3 is average for the position, 5 is best). If you think the number will change significantly between day 1 and mid-season, feel free to list two numbers.
skillGoodeRogersEppsHarrisRJ
BBIQ
Ability to create a shot
Passing
Handles
Stay in front of the opposing guard
skill I forgot to list

I put Goode at the 2 for the start of the season for what I perceive to be a lack of better options. Is there a more suitable non-freshman 2? Please go with the premise of non-freshman for this question even if you think a freshman should start at the 2.

Starting Skye and one of Epps/Harris feels like a very rough start. It may be the later season solution. Is Rogers, a freshman who doesn't know the system, who is also a natural 3, really a better choice at the 2 at the start of the season, when put beside another freshman guard? Are Epps or Harris really ready to start on day 1?

I think some posts have said that RJ has decent handles. I took that to mean decent handles for a 3/4. Are they good enough to play the 2? If so, that leaves a lot of minutes at the 4 given that Hawk needs to help at the 5. Fill those minutes at the 4 with Goode?

Thanks for the time to provide the insider information and education 0440
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Just to clear things up, you are asking 0440 to fill out your spreadsheet??

Im Dead Season 2 GIF by Parks and Recreation
 
#579      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
Combo said:
Agreed 100%. Good coaches don't try to play SFs at SG (or PFs at SF). In fact they do the opposite - they try to get as much ball-handling and quickness on the floor as possible. Which means frequently playing two PGs at the same time and playing a guy with true guard skills at the 3.

Now, hypothetically, if we were to not add another guard, Goode or RJ might have to play a bit at the 2 out of necessity, since we would only have three true guards on the roster (Epps, Clark, and Harris). But we will add at least one more guard, and possibly two, so there will be no need to play Goode/RJ out of position.

And Rodgers isn't a guard either. He's played forward basically his whole life, yet some posters are suggesting he comes out of the gate as a FR starting at guard. Maybe in a couple years, if/when he develops a reliable outside shot, we "could" play him there, but seems very unlikely as a FR.

Even though Clark and Epps are FR, they have legitimate guard skills. If we're going to start FR at guard, those two are the best candidates.
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I agree with most of your points but I have to disagree about Rodgers. He definitely has the handles and passing ability to be a guard. He's had a lot of experience bringing the ball up and having an offense run through him plus he just looks so smooth with the ball in his hands. He definitely needs to improve his shooting but he has the kind of skill set where he can make plays for others. I don't believe he's at the point where he can be a lead guard all the time but I think he's more capable than someone like Damonte who was thrown in that role.
 
#580      

derrick6

D
Illini Dawg
Seattle
derrick6
illini0440 said:
Williams is a good comp....but lets not get ahead of ourselves.....don't think he is as good as Williams is yet. But he has lived with Fletch since getting on campus.
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Williams shoots the 3?
 
#581      

grue2

G
grue2
Homecoming 2019 said:
Just to clear things up, you are asking 0440 to fill out your spreadsheet??
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I was hoping they would. It would be educational. I tried to make it easier by using a 5 points scale centered on "average for the position" vs. an absolute 10 point scale.
 
#583      

Seagee

Seagee
Seagee
phats22 said:
i guess, but apart from resurrecting one of the most historic programs in NCAA history, continually elevation the talent level, instilling a cohesive culture, 2 (should be 3) tournament trips, BBT and then a BT title despite a bogus 3 game NCAA suspension and multiple medical issues [Covid, concussion x 2 (that we know of), shoulder x 2, conjunctivitis, acute appendicitis] he hasnt really done too much
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Not to mention having to replace ALL THREE of his assistant coaches last summer. Insane he did not get the B1G COY.
 
#584      

HailChief89

H
HailChief89
First time since I was a young man and a student that I have re-watched, Michigan and Illinois 1989 Final Four game. I am so shocked that Kendall Gill was not guarding Glenn rice in the second half and Larry Smith wasn't on rumeal Robinson. Steve Bardo was a clunky slow player I don't care what anyone says watching this game is shows up. And I'm a big fan of Steve Bardo. but in this game you got to make adjustments. Also to see Marcus Liberty sitting on the bench it blows my mind I had a chance to meet Lou henson and speak to him at length he was a great great man but he made some huge mistakes in the scheme tactically wise. Michigan Was loaded and you got a counter that. And for all you younger Generations you need to watch this game because what's going to happen this year should be the 1989 flying Fighting Illini team playing defense and flying up and down the court. If the younger generation has never watched Kenny Battle please do so in also has high voice is classic! I remember sitting in Millikin University in Decatur Illinois and they were hosting a blue and orange scrimmage and I watched Kenny Battle touch the top of the square on the backboard with his palm the dude was so hardcore we need players like that honor team!
 
#585      

Ga65

G
Ga65
blackdog said:
I agree with most of your points but I have to disagree about Rodgers. He definitely has the handles and passing ability to be a guard. He's had a lot of experience bringing the ball up and having an offense run through him plus he just looks so smooth with the ball in his hands. He definitely needs to improve his shooting but he has the kind of skill set where he can make plays for others. I don't believe he's at the point where he can be a lead guard all the time but I think he's more capable than someone like Damonte who was thrown in that role.
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In video he also was by far the best defensive in terms of staying in front of his man. He is mentioned a lot here as playing the four but Goode seems like a much better backup for that position to me. He is big enough and strong enough to guard a 4 but not quick enough to guard a 2.
 
#586      

HailChief89

H
HailChief89
Well I just finished the game and I want to vomit we should have a national title. I wish coach and the players the most success this year I like our freaking current roster I think if we can get some other big dude that can eat minutes and an experience point guard that just likes 15 minutes a game like Larry Smith from 1989 will be good to go but I love our current roster and I think they'll freaking play hard and develop over the season and I think it's going to be awesome to watch. I love you all , go Illini!
 
#587      

Ga65

G
Ga65
This team will be bigger than the 88-89 team but matching the athletic ability of Anderson and Battle is a high standard. 6’6” guys that could shoot and fly like them will have to be proven.
 
#588      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
grue2 said:
Please remember the fan board premise: "Assuming no more transfers" as we discuss this. Everything changes if we get another senior guard. I'm an armchair fan, so if you disagree with something, please provide some education with the contradiction.

How would you order Goode / Rogers / Epps / Harris for each of these (1-5, 3 is average for the position, 5 is best). If you think the number will change significantly between day 1 and mid-season, feel free to list two numbers.
skillGoodeRogersEppsHarrisRJ
BBIQ
Ability to create a shot
Passing
Handles
Stay in front of the opposing guard
skill I forgot to list

I put Goode at the 2 for the start of the season for what I perceive to be a lack of better options. Is there a more suitable non-freshman 2? Please go with the premise of non-freshman for this question even if you think a freshman should start at the 2.

Starting Skye and one of Epps/Harris feels like a very rough start. It may be the later season solution. Is Rogers, a freshman who doesn't know the system, who is also a natural 3, really a better choice at the 2 at the start of the season, when put beside another freshman guard? Are Epps or Harris really ready to start on day 1?

I think some posts have said that RJ has decent handles. I took that to mean decent handles for a 3/4. Are they good enough to play the 2? If so, that leaves a lot of minutes at the 4 given that Hawk needs to help at the 5. Fill those minutes at the 4 with Goode?

Thanks for the time to provide the insider information and education 0440.
Click to expand...
Goode offers 3 things we can comfortably identify

1) Decent size/strength
2) quality shooting (albeit it on low volume, but against some really good teams)
3) toughness

What’s missing from the formula for a 2?

Quickness
Ball handling
Above the rim finishing (think Brandon Paul here but he was 4 inches shorter)
Ability to defend any guard position

This is absolutely not a bash on Goode. A tough as nails small ball 4 who can shoot the lights out is a great bullet to have in the chamber. We just gotta be fair to him with our expectations. I think from here on out he has a significant role on the team, and it will adapt as his ability improves, but consider who we have and who we might get to transfer in. He’s not gonna need to play to anything but his current strengths.
 
#589      

Birdus

B
Birdus
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
Goode offers 3 things we can comfortably identify

1) Decent size/strength
2) quality shooting (albeit it on low volume, but against some really good teams)
3) toughness

What’s missing from the formula for a 2?

Quickness
Ball handling
Above the rim finishing (think Brandon Paul here but he was 4 inches shorter)
Ability to defend any guard position

This is absolutely not a bash on Goode. A tough as nails small ball 4 who can shoot the lights out is a great bullet to have in the chamber. We just gotta be fair to him with our expectations. I think from here on out he has a significant role on the team, and it will adapt as his ability improves, but consider who we have and who we might get to transfer in. He’s not gonna need to play to anything but his current strengths.
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I think Rogers meets that role but he may need a little time. On the other hand, you never know?
 
#590      

Homecoming 2019

Homecoming 2019
Chicago
Homecoming 2019
Seagee said:
Not to mention having to replace ALL THREE of his assistant coaches last summer. Insane he did not get the B1G COY.
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And wasn't gifted a sophomore breakout top 10 NBA draft prospect. Wisconsin was rated poorly preseason because without Johnny they were awful.
 
#592      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
Goode offers 3 things we can comfortably identify

1) Decent size/strength
2) quality shooting (albeit it on low volume, but against some really good teams)
3) toughness

What’s missing from the formula for a 2?

Quickness
Ball handling
Above the rim finishing (think Brandon Paul here but he was 4 inches shorter)
Ability to defend any guard position

This is absolutely not a bash on Goode. A tough as nails small ball 4 who can shoot the lights out is a great bullet to have in the chamber. We just gotta be fair to him with our expectations. I think from here on out he has a significant role on the team, and it will adapt as his ability improves, but consider who we have and who we might get to transfer in. He’s not gonna need to play to anything but his current strengths.
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Nice assessment. Pretty hard to argue with any of that. :)

I would maybe add one thing to his list of positives…This is admittedly immeasurable, and clearly subjective but I think because of his combined IQ and fearlessness there’s some serious leadership potential with
Luke. (He’s shown it at times already.)

Who knows how the roster, or the PT will shake out. But at the very least he’s a stabilizing force.
 
#595      

QCtoKC

QCtoKC
QCtoKC
21ChampaignSt said:
He's just not a 2. I think he'll see plenty of minutes next year.

I don't usually play this game, but here goes.

Skyy (27)/Transfer1 (10)/Epps (3)
Transfer2 (20)/Epps (15)/Harris (5)
RJ(25)/Ty(10)/Goode(5)
Hawk(20)/Goode(18)/Ty(2)
Dainja(19)/Transfer5(17)/Hawk(4)

Overall
Skyy - 27mpg
RJ - 25mpg
Hawk - 24mpg
Goode - 23mpg
Transfer2 - 20mpg
Dainja - 19mpg
Transfer5 - 17mpg
Ty - 12mpg
Transfer1 - 10mpg
Harris - 5mpg
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This isn't a knock on you, specifically, but I absolutely adore the completely arbitrary numbers game that posters play with regard to minutes predictions. It's as useless as it is arbitrary, which is to say "completely".
 
#597      

21ChampaignSt

21ChampaignSt
21ChampaignSt
QCtoKC said:
This isn't a knock on you, specifically, but I absolutely adore the completely arbitrary numbers game that posters play with regard to minutes predictions. It's as useless as it is arbitrary, which is to say "completely".
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Lol I certainly don't take these predictions seriously (including my own). And I don't usually participate in them, but with so much roster uncertainty, it was kind of a fun exercise on slow night.
 
#598      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
WyattEarp said:
Nice assessment. Pretty hard to argue with any of that. :)

I would maybe add one thing to his list of positives…This is admittedly immeasurable, and clearly subjective but I think because of his combined IQ and fearlessness there’s some serious leadership potential with
Luke. (He’s shown it at times already.)

Who knows how the roster, or the PT will shake out. But at the very least he’s a stabilizing force.
Click to expand...
The very next post is video of Dain working out & Goode making a cameo in several scenes in the weight room. Goode appears to be everything the "everyday guy" culture is supposed to be. Carrying that culture forward is going to be a big key to sustained success.
He isn't the quick twitch athlete some others are, but that doesn't mean he won't have an important role. Having someone who doesn't need to be asked to put in the extra work goes a long way in showing the other guys what hard work looks like. (Everyone who puts on a sweat swears they work hard...) Goode seems to be a legit gym rat. Hopefully, he has the charisma to get others to follow.
 
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